Can a component after complete breaking reverse ?

A very simple example might make this concept easier to grasp:

If you take an ordinary chunk of iron, and wrap a coil around it, and connect it to a voltage source, you create an electro-magnet. If you leave the coil energized for a sufficient period of time, eventually the iron core will become magnetized itself, and retain magnetic properties even with the coil de-energized. However, if left de-energized for a long enough period of time, the random polarity of the iron core will return, and it's magnetic alignment will be lost. Likewise, if you mechanically agitate the iron core, you will hasten it's return to random polarity of the material.

These changes in the alignment of field charges within a material do not usually occur in a matter of seconds, minutes, or hours. Essentially all materials undergo some level of adaptation when immersed in an electric or magnetic field, and their electrical properties will definitely change as this adaption occurs. Likewise, in the absence of a charge or field, these materials will eventually return to their original, steady-state condition.

An additional factor is thermal cycling of components and chassis materials. The electrical properties of components will absolutely change following thermal cycling, and similarly the resonant frequency of structural materials will vary with temperature.

The issue is not whether or not these phenomenon occurs, because it is indisputable. It is also indisputable that changes in component performance result from these phenomenon. The most important point is that the changes are as likely to degrade performance as they are to enhance performance. This is the "ART" in designing high-end audio equipment. If the interaction of physical materials, electrical and magnetic fields, heating & cooling, etc... were not so complex, anybody could make make equipment that performed as well as anybody elses.

If someone is not able to discern the audible changes brought on by what we refer to as "break-in", then they are probably the lucky ones, and they will should be very satisfied with their Wave radio.

Mike

is it possible that what you are describing can be explained by two words--component degredation.

over time, the sound of capcitors, resistors, tubes et al. will change. this is not a break-in phenomenon as much as it is a result of aging.

Shadorne, meet Porziob.

Yes it can reverse and finding the optimum amount of break-in requires careful and constant calibration. This is easy to do;

1) Play break-in sweeps in upwards direction only until you achive the desired level of break-in and sound
2) If you find it drifting away from optimum level of break-in (from too much play) then use break-in sweeps in downwards direction to regain optimum sound.

This works for me every time ;-)

Terryakhan: The relevant answer to your question is that you can get responses ranging from Porziob's to most everyone else's (and then there's the question of what constitutes break-in vs. warm-up), but the bottom line is if one can't determine this for themselves via listening, then it really needn't matter. Personally, I've never been aware of new cable break-in, and also never sure when it comes to components *other than speakers and cartridges* (and new tubes) whether break-in or simply warm-up is occurring. But that may well be because most of my stuff has been bought used, and what Albert says is right. Anyway, if can't hear it then don't sweat it.

Tvad, this makes sense to me also. I'm sure the designers understand the workings of a capacitor, now if you said it was a salesman explaining component operating theory...
Fotis k, what's the funniest electric shock story you have? One of my favorites is -- a guy I worked with was leaning against a metal bench when he got zapped. What made it funny was his crotch was the part of his body contacting the bench. Why is someone elses pain so darn funny?

Timrhu you cruel bugger! -We still do this at our shop, and, I have discovered, that you can even zap a non-rookie, simply by throwing it at him while walking by. People, like dogs, like to catch things.

I wonder if there is two aspects to all this capacitor stuff:
1)The capacitor simply charges, stores, then releases said charge. (O.K., this is true of a capacitor from initial start up- either it works or it doesn't)
2)Is there a possibility that there is a settling in time/period for the capacitor, or the parts that make up the capacitor, in effect making for a better catalyst?
In other words, is there something happening on a very small level (molecular) that will allow for better delivery, storage, and release of this energy? Consider it conditioning, break-in, what ever.

On to the main topic, I believe that there might not really be another real break-in, as opposed to a re-conditioning. I don't consider the effect of break-in to be lost -broken in is broken in -but, I do belive that conditionig is also real.

To make my self clearer, let's consider that a car engine sufficiently broken in at 5,000 kms still requires a warm up period to reach optimal performance, no?

Tvad, they are incorrect. Very easy to demonstrate by connecting an electrollytic cap to a power supply for a second or two. Disconnect it, short the two ends with a screwdriver and watch the sparks fly. Back in my Air Force days a common practical joke in maintenance shops was to charge up a big ol cap and sit it on the bench for the unsuspecting rookie and have him install it in a power supply.

Tvad, I think you mean capacitors will hold a charge for the better part of a day but take only milliseconds to become charged.

I love your question - can a broken component become unbroken. Only audiophiles even know what is being asked. Normal people wold say it breaks the conservation of energy principle.

In the realm of the audiophile this is one of those some people hear the effect and other do not type questions. I vote YES, it can happen. It may not be break-in, but most components require a certain amount of time after being turned on to reach thermal equilibrium and optimal audio performance. Also any time you attach or disconnect a cable the sound can change.

Break in is an urban legend.

Cables do lose something when moved or not used much. Some cables use a grounding type that needs to settle in after moving. Putting a CD on in repeat when you're not otherwise listening to your system will keep cables formed properly. There are some CD's with tracks for this particular purpose such as the Sterophile Break-in CD.

Facts??? How absurd!
Sorry, I couldn't resist. Sometimes I'm too literal.

Agree completely with George Cardas and the explanation given by Kotta.

Cables don't go back to the start of break in but they do change when moved, shipped or re terminated. The good news is, once a cable is broken in it returns to 100% pretty quickly with just a little music.

Most times when I move IC or spk. wires around, it does take some time for sound quality to return to where it was before.(Smoother/warmer sound w/greater bass and generally less brightness.) Why that is so, I do not know. I don't think cables completely revert to their original state unless they haven't been used for some time.