Cambridge Audio 840C

Hi Bavarian,

I tried both the Shiva and Vishnu with my 840C. The Vishnu was far better. In comparison with the Shiva it added some meat to the bones of the music. I agree that the Shiva whilst revealing is also thin.

I am using a Nordost Shiva currently. I find it a revealing mains cable, but it can sound thin at times depending on material. I would love some other recommendations from people with first hand experience. I just bought (on backorder right now) a Bryston BDP-1 and plan to run it through the 840C's coax input. Any thoughts or recommendations are appreciated.

02-25-08: Mdconnelly
Kiwi, I've got a modded Tact 2.0s which has a modded DAC as well. The room correction of the Tact has done wonders for my listening room (which doubles as our living room hence no room treatments allowed ;-).

Thanks for the update - enjoy the Oracle

Kiwi, I've got a modded Tact 2.0s which has a modded DAC as well. The room correction of the Tact has done wonders for my listening room (which doubles as our living room hence no room treatments allowed ;-).

The 840c as a transport into the Tact was very, very good. The Oracle, beyond just being a gorgeous piece of equipment, added a level of body and depth to voices and instruments that I just couldn't resist.

I have since sold the 840c because I had an opportunity to try an Oracle CD1000 transport over the holidays that I just fell in love with. Please note that it's MLP is 3 times that of the 840c.

Wow the transport looks great. What are you doing for a DAC? I see Oracle offer the DAC1000 which includes a pre-amp.

Darrens, it all matters *g*

Kiwi, there is a post here somewhere where I did compare the CA 840c against the GNSC modded Wadia 830. The Wadia came out on top with better dimension, depth and definition in voices and instruments -- but we're talking about Wadia and Great Northern Sound. That should hardly be a surprise. Ultimately, however, I did decide to sell the Wadia in favor of the 840c because I was looking for a transport to use with my modded Tact 2.0s. The Wadia did not have digital outs and running the Wadia analog outs into the AtoD converter in the Tact and then the Tact DAC out to the amp just lost too much in the translation.

As Darrens noted, I have since sold the 840c because I had an opportunity to try an Oracle CD1000 transport over the holidays that I just fell in love with. Please note that it's MLP is 3 times that of the 840c. The Oracle is definitely staying put for a long time.

I still believe the 840c is an exceptional CDP and punches way out of it's price range. Definitely worth a listen no matter what price range you're looking in.

Has anyone compared CA 840C with Cary 306 or 306/200 or Wadia 850?

Does it matter? He doesn't even own the 840c anymore.. :(

10-05-07: Mdconnelly
While the Wadia may have an edge on the 3D thing, I have to agree with Smargo about the 840c's musicality. You won't be disappointed by the 840c... and you'd have to get a bit anal when comparing to the more far more expensive competition to hear the differences. Give it a listen - you won't be disappointed. It's far better than anything in its price range that I've heard.

What was your final conclusion on the Cambridge Audio 840C vs. The Wadia 830?

I find I am once again guilty of tired brain = confusing post syndrome.
My note above should have read:
I started with UNBALANCED cables that were well broken in, and then my balanced cables arrived that I'd ordered specifically for the "improved sound" that RH discussed.
It makes no sense to have said I started with balanced cables and then switched to balanced cables...
It's late in the day once again, hopefully this post has made sense.
Maybe I'll try some new feet?

Rolloff

I use a Nordost Visnhu power cord with my 840C.

Curious, what power cord are you running with your 840C?

I think there is now widespread agreement that to maximise the performance of your 840C, three things need to be done.

1. Run in for at least 200 hours
2. Replace the feet, which are a real weakness of the unit
3. Use the balanced connectors.

I've now clocked about 400 hours on this player and i enjoy it immensely. I bought the 840C after auditioning the Naim cd5i, Cyrus 6 & 8, Arcam CD192, Cayin CDT-17A and the MF A3.5CD.

I would like to comment on 2. & 3. above.

I've read many reports of 840C owners replacing the existing feet with Herbies Tenderfoot. This seems to have paid dividends - but also voids the warranty. I prefered instead to leave the feet in place but use another form of isolation. I experimented with a few options including Golden Sounds DH cones and pads. I achieved the best result with Nordost's Pulsar points.

On the RCA vs. XLR debate, unfortunately i can't make any conclusive comments because i used a different IC cable for both. Initially i used Nordost's Blue Heaven with RCA phono connectors. The result was most pleasing. But then the Nordost dealer threw me a Heimdall IC with XLR connectors to try. The dealer never got the Heimdall cable back - the difference in resolution and soundstage were given the short IC lenght (1m) staggering. XLR appears to be better in that it's higher gain (reducing the noise floor) but whether the overall difference was impacted more by the IC cable - i can't be sure, so the result in inconclusive.

After 400+ hours of breakin, I've tried it both balanced and unbalanced (as well as a transport alone). I "think" balanced may have marginally better definition but I think Daltonlanny is right in that they are not matched levels so it's difficult to say. If you have a balanced rig, then by all means run it balanced, but I wouldn't hesitate to use the 840c via the RCA outs (or just as a transport).

I found that at first the balanced outputs sounded much better.
But, I think the only reason they sounded better was because they were louder [more voltage output].
With the levels matched, the RCA's and the XLR outputs sound virtually the same, IMHO.

I did a brief comparison between my unbalanced and my balanced cables, but I suppose it's a bit of an unfair one as it was during the first 200 hours when things were breaking in. I started with balanced cables that were well broken in, and then my balanced cables arrived that I'd ordered specifically for the "improved sound" that RH discussed. I let these run for some time before really taking any time to listen again. There was improved openness and definition and imaging, but was that all due to the balanced cables being used, or due to the increased break in time, or both? Who knows. It sounds open, clear, articulate, and engaging, so I'm happy. I guess I could go back and insert the RCA cables now and see if I notice a reduction in any virtues from the player, sometime...
Also, I don't know if I remember anyone mentioning above, during the headphone discussion, the fact that the CD players that have a headphone output have a separate circuit for amplifying this signal for your headphones. So, when you listen through the headphone output, you're listening through a completely different amplification circuit, than would send a signal to your amplifier.

Rolloff

I've at least read through most of these posts and I'm surprised that there was not more mention of using the 840C's balanced outputs. As you probably know, Robert Harley in TAS made it clear that the 840C's sound is improved in all areas via its balanced outputs. I contacted him asking him to be a bit more specific about the differences, but his response was not very direct in this regard. This is what troubled me when I read the TAS review because I couldn't be sure how much better it sounded via its balanced outputs. I'm hoping to look into this more, but I'm wodering if some of those who aren't overly impressed with the 840C may have not listened to it in balanced mode. Harley felt it was important that it be heard using a fully balanced system. Unfortunately, many of us aren't able to do that.

If anyone has done the comparison of balanced vs. unbalanced operation of the 840C I would appreciate your input. It would be interesting to know if it really kicks its sound up a notch.

Smargo,

I wasn't challenging you or anyone else about the 840's sound quality, and I'm glad you found the cdp that fits your system.

I was just probing into people's psychology of buying and selling, trying to give an answer to those who posted questions on this forum and others, as to why so many units are for sale.

Thanks for your defense for the 840's virtues as I'm sure it will help some.

daltonlanny said why he was selling his unit in a response that is above - saids he needs the money -

you now i don't care who is selling their unit - im just enjoying mine and i have had many cd players up to the $2000-$3000 range and this one is so musical - it may not do other things that great - but it is so damn musical and continues to be musical after 5 months of listening.

It such a good piece in my system - and there usually is a lot of hype with products that i have bought and - well this is one of the few units that stand out in my 17 years of spending tons of money on equipment.

smargo

Remember, many of the units sold used are re-sells. I think some users buy them used to see what all the hub bub is all about and resell them when they realize their existing cdp has better synergy in there system or realize the improvement is subtle and not worth the investment.

I for one think there is no one best piece of equipment in each price range. I think all the better pieces have their own virtues and we my like what they have better.

I'm always leery of reviews that claim "the best". We all have different rooms, systems, ears, and listening styles/tastes. And the cabling - that is another story - some act as tone controls which alter the sound.

Wow, 3 went up for sale this weekend with 2 sale pending...

I imagine many were purchased shortly after the TAS review. I still think this is an exceptional CDP for the money but perhaps many were hoping it really does compete with $5k+ players. If I were looking for the very best CDP for up to $5k, the 840c would probably not make it to the top of the list. But... for what it does, it would be very hard to beat at twice it's price and probably higher if what you're looking for must include digital inputs.

Mike

Just for the record, Daltonlanny put his 840c up for sale today (sale pending). In fairness, he hasn't posted to this thread in a month, so in the meantime he may have found something more attractive or decided to "go in another direction." Still, would be interesting to know what prompted the sale.

Thanks again for your response. FYI, I found a review on-line comparing the Naim 5i with the CA 840c (and the Arcam CD192) on this link:

http://www.smarthouse.com.au/Reviews/Real_Hi_Fi/C2R5X9V5?page=1

You might have seen this already. This is the review where the writer says that he had, "a soft spot the size of Texas," for the 840c, preferring that unit over the others.

I didn't compare Naim CD 5i and CA side by side. So I am a bit precousuos. My feeling is that small Naim has excellent dynamic and is very strong in bass compartment. I listened to the system: Naim CD 5i + Naim Nait 5 + Ruark Sabre III and it was sounding vivid, fast, ... excellent for the money.

What I did compare side by side were: Naim CD 5i and Naim CD 5x. 5x is better, especially in the bass area - the bass of CD 5x is more precise. You simply hear more details and it is a bit more open. Whether it is worth additonal 1000 euros is a matter for discussion but if you have that cach, go for 5x. Later you can upgrade with external supply, which is not possible with the small one. But before you do this supply upgrade, try it first. I did try Naim Flatcap 2x but I couldn't hear much difference. Many people did though, so be a bit carefull with that additional 1000 euro (or something like that).

I hope this helps a bit ...

Regards
Dejan

Naim CD5X and CD5i just sound very musical compared to other digital sources in their price categories. Not as highly resolving as say, Moon, or Arcam, but with terrifically engaging and rhythmic output. Combined with Naim amps and decent speakers like Devore, Naim or Totem, hard to beat and hard to stop listening. I would be interested in a Naim CD5i and Cambridge Audio 840C comparison. My guess would be similar to that reported above - the 840C has better resolution and sounds smoother, while the Naim kicks it in terms of pace and toe tap-ability.

really - enough nonsense with headphone jacks - How can you compare the sound of equipment thru headphone jacks - I never could - its like trying to appreciate the colors of a rainbow - with your eyes closed.

The 840c is much better than the 640v2 - so much more involving and sweet - like mdconnelly said - its the breakin - its the breakin

thanks
smargo

Don't give up too quickly on the 840c without listening to it... I know it surprised me. The is much truth to be found in all the hype. Just be sure to give it time to breakin.

Dejanm, Thanks for the extra information.

Thanks for your comparisons.

Once I thought I might get a CA 740 or 840C, but lately I've been thinking of getting a player for the long run. I've been looking at Naim. Would you mind describing the difference you heard between the CA and Naim players?

I've been thinking particularly of the CD5X or CDX2, but would be very curious as to how the CD5i stacks up nevertheless.

Hi,

The headphones have been hooked to the headphone out on the CA 840A amplifier. The comments that you put guys is something that is quite possible. I was surprised myself. I took several other CDPs that were laying around (Audiolab CD8000 and Denon DCD 1500) and there were also no differences in reproduction - maybe a little bit in case of Denon.

I used during this test also Warf EVO 30 (the result was the same as with headphones) but you might say (and I would agree) that these loudspeakers are also not good enough to register major differencies between the players. That is why I didn't mention it in my first post.

But if that is true about EVO 30 and not good enough headphone output of CA 840A, that means that differencies between CDPs in a price range until 1000 euro are very subtle and that we need very good system to be able to notice it. The question is then: why should we put a CDP under 1000 euro in a very good system ? Or to put it in another way: if you have a system where the components are between 1000 and 2000 euro, probably various CDPs are not going to make a big difference, if any at all.

But it is possible that there are some other experiences - I haven't compare all CDPs that exist and it is quite possible that there are some other that do make a difference. Naim CD 5i does. So, I am not making here any generalizations based on only one test case ...

I completely agree with Finthen. I have listened to some great players that sounded only mediocre through their headphone jack. Dejanm, can you hook it up to a speaker system for comparison?

Thank you Dejanm for that comparison, which goes to show how very crucial the circuitry and resulting transparency is of the jack that we plug high resolution headphones into, be it a well regarded intergrated, the player itself or another headamp.
True enough that the differances between the two models maybe audiably subtle, but I would still fault the lack of transparency of the headphone jack/amp if the conclusion is that there is no differance to be heard.

Although I do sincerely appreciate the comparison, and your opinion.

I did the comparison between CA 640 V2 and 840. The system consisted of CA 840A integrated amp and I connected AKG K601 headphones to this amp. Both CDPs were connected at the same time and I was listening to the same discs running in both players in the same time. Then I switched between two inputs to hear the difference.

And I didn't heard any ... to be honest. It was big disappointment having in mind the technology built into CA 840. And 840 costs about twice as much as 640 V2. It may be that 840A is not good enough to show the differences, but it should be ... AKGs are excellent headphones and they are certainly not the reason for this disappointment.

Anyway, the only player that I heard until 1000 euro mark that does make a difference is Naim CD 5i.

and that may well be true -- comparing it the audio aero and theta - and after 3 weeks and even 2 months it is so wonderfully musical to listen to - i know evryone must be tired of me saying the same thing over and over - but today i had some music on that i (of all things downloaded from the internet - lossless) and it was so engaging - the player still amazes me going on 5 months.

smargo

I heard it at Tweeters with Krell integrated and Focal speakers. It was very musical and engaging. No direct comparison and I do not think it is as as good as the Audio Aero Presige and Theta Jade/Gen 8 I have at home but I still liked the Cambridge 840C. It is really a very nice player.

Still waiting on someone to compare it to the 640C V2....................

While the Wadia may have an edge on the 3D thing, I have to agree with Smargo about the 840c's musicality. You won't be disappointed by the 840c... and you'd have to get a bit anal when comparing to the more far more expensive competition to hear the differences. Give it a listen - you won't be disappointed. It's far better than anything in its price range that I've heard.

I know what the 840c has above all - is musicality - that may contain elements of what your looking for. So if i have air - I have musicality - blackness im not sure - ive heard players that have great blackness and sound awful - im not sure about edge delineation - you may have to spend a lot of money for that - but the 840c does a decent job.

I just think if it turns you on when listening - there must be elements there that are very good

Regards
smargo

Mdconnelly,

I have not heard the 840c but am considering it.

But, I must admit that having a 3D soundstage with good air, blackness, and edge delineation carries a lot of weight towards a good listening experience. Once the cdp shopping comparisons are done with, this all important characteristic will make or break the listening experience.

If the musical perception describing the space in the recording is missing I personally will look elseware for a cdp. I have considered the 840c and may look elseware.

Mike,

That's what I figured. One thing I noticed from CDPs (and audio electronics like DACs, Preamps, and Amps) is that the higher you go up, the main and consistent difference is the blackness and the 3D-ness of the sound.

A lot of the "wide soundstage and spacious sound" I find has a lot to do with the gain of the unit/system. And I find that I gravitate ultimately to whichever gives me the lowest noisefloor and the best 3D effect.

After all, life is in 3D. Or is it 4D? I forget... lol. :)

Joey

Has anyone had any issues with the RCA analog output jacks on the rear panel being too close together? I use Transparent cables with metal WBT locking RCA connectors, and they touch each other when connected to the jacks- no way around it. Would this be a problem to be concerned about? At times I get a very faint, high pitch feedback sound coming from my speakers. I don't know if this could be the cause of it or not, or if I should be looking elsewhere in my system for the problem??? All I know is that this problem did not surface until I inserted this player into my system. It didn't seem to be a problem for the first week or so. Any thoughts on this?

This might sound crazy - i mean you could offer them 50 more bucks for 3-4 days of more listening especially if you are really in a quandry in terms of making the final purchase - just to be sure. You won't be dissapointed though. i know It is a true high end sound.

good luck
smargo

Smargo, that's certainly what I'm hoping. Unfortunately, I only have a 2 week eval period (bought from Spearit Sound) which means I've got to make a decision within the next 5 days.

Mike:

And after 3 weeks of burn in the you will notice blacker backgrounds and a lot more space - im not sure if it is up there with the wadia though. Thats why i have been saying at least 3 weeks break-in it only keeps getting better. you'll see.

regards,
smargo

Yup, I've been using it with my Tact 2.0s which reports the format of the digital input. The 840c does output an upsampled digital stream via the SPDIF out.

Can one of you 840 users please confirm if the unit will output an upsampled(24/96 or 24/192) signal from the digital outputs while playing a Redbook CD. Thanks.

OK, after about a week of continuous burn-in, I did some critical listening to my 840c last night and a bit of comparison with my Wadia 830 (w/GNSC mods) although I hope to spend a good bit more time with both this weekend.

What I can say is that the 840c does live up to the hype. The top-end has definition and delicacy to die for with an equally rich and involving midrange. Very realistic and engaging with a wonderful sense of extension and ambience which definitely contributes to a sense of venue when called for. The 840c's soundstage is also wide and deep. And, all other factors aside, it is very musically engaging. I listened for several hours and never tired, although it was certainly revealing in the difference between excellent records (e.g. XRCDs) versus poor recordings. And, the edginess that I heard upon initial listen a week ago was totally gone.

I will also add that these characteristics of the 840c held true whether used simply as a transport feeding my Tact or using the unbalanced RCA outs. I have not had a chance to check the balanced out.

I then switched back to the Wadia... While I found myself missing that sweet top-end of the 840c a bit, I must say that to my ears, the Wadia edged out the 840c in one particularly important area... The Wadia presented a noticable blacker background with better defined space between voices and instruments. This contributed to a more realistic 3D presentation with more perceived depth to each instrument or voice.

Of course, the Wadia 830 w/GNSC mods places it in a price range well above the CA 840c (although still lower than the TAS $5k threshold).

Mike

Joey_v, I have not yet had a chance to listen to the 840c critically to compare with the Wadia. As a stand-alone CDP, I think the Wadia is stellar so I'll be amazed if the 840c can rival that much less beat it.

But, my reason for checking out the 840c is primarily as an upsampling transport to feed my Tact 2.0s preamp which operates in the digital domain. My Wadia 830 doesn't have digital outs so using it to feed the Tact means it must do a D-A-D-A dance and that can't be a good thing.

I'll definitely post my findings but it'll likely be another week before I do.

I did an in depth look at the manual last night, and didn't find that CD-Text feature either.
Dang.
Maybe they'll come out with a software upgrade? It does display the software version on the display...
I also did a little listenning. mmmm
So easy to like.
More after vacation.
Rolloff

@Rolloff.
Taking a look at 840's list of features, I didn't find CD-Text included... The simplest explanation why your CD player doesn't display the name of album, songs etc. Your previous player obviously had included that one...