cable dielectric cause of artificial sound

I think people freak out too much about copper wire oxidizing. Unless it's oxidation between mechanical contacts, I haven't found it to be any problem at all. It's only a few molecules thick and I find that much more preferable to a whole hell of a lot more plastic extruded over the wire. Even the thinnest enameling is orders of magnitude thicker.

Some say copper oxide isn't very conductive. Yeah? So what? Teflon isn't very conductive either. Nor the air surrounding the wire. Essentially all the oxide is doing is effectively reducing the diameter of the wire by a few molecules, which is nothing compared to the variation of wire diameter due to manufacturing tolerances.

se

Elizabeth,

Chris VenHaus of VH Audio sells a 28 gauge solid core silver wire that's insulated with four layers of cotton serve and has a very uniform outside diameter which would make it very good for twisted pairs or, my preference, braided quads.

It's $59.99 for a 25 foot spool.

se

I agree with Tplavas.
The cable geometry makes more of a difference in sound than dielectric types (if we're just counting the big 3: Teflon/PTFE, Polyethylene, cotton). Air is the best dielectric but difficult to manufacture successfully because copper will oxidize over time when exposed to air.
Manufactures feel it necessary to use PTFE because it's considered among the best solid dielectric, they can't charge a high price for an inferior insulator such as PVC.
Geometry such as multiple conductor braids, litz, effect the sound drastically. In my experience, a cable with high inductance will yield a sound that is smoother/warmer.

Sean,

As far as the AQ DBS system, it definitely does 'something'. I'll leave judgement about it's effects aside for now, since I have experienced the 'effect' on one AQ model only, but I found recently that the DBS system does have an effect on the cable to which it's attached. I had previously owned two 1 meter long AQ Eagle Eye digital cables which I was using from my transport to DSP, and from the DSP to my digital crossover. Having heard some positive improvements in the past by using .5 meter digital cables (I know, I know, shame on me for breaking the "rule"),after contacting Audioquest and confirming that they would make .5 meter digital cables, I ordered two .5 meter AQ Eagle Eye cables through an AQ dealer, who told me they would have to be special-ordered from AQ, who would make them in that length, and then drop-ship them to me.
To make a long story short,when I received the cables and plugged them in, I thought I'd made a huge mistake by buying the .5 meter Eagle Eyes. Instead of revealing more detail and dynamics as I'd expected from prior experience, they were slow, bloated in the bass, and lacking the kind of top-octave extension I was used to from the 1 meter Eagle Eyes. Thinking they needed to break-in, but not really expecting them to ever change enough to be acceptable, I put them back in their boxes, and didn't touch them for about 3 weeks. When I plugged them back in so I could begin 'burning' them in, I gave them a quick listen to confirm my earlier evaluation.
HOLY COW...what a difference!!! 3 weeks of sitting untouched in the box and they'd transformed into tight, revealing, highly-textured digital cables. Since I'd made no other changes to my main system in that time, I can only attribute the huge change to the "charging" of the dielectrics in the DBS field over the 3 weeks they went unused. Apparently the only way to really hear the effect of the DBS system is to listen to newly-manufactured cables, and then wait a few weeks and listen again.

Dazzdax: I would not doubt that Audioquest's "DBS" system is based on something similar to what i'm experiencing. Without talking to Bill Low, i'm strictly guessing at that though...

Tplavas: I was working with standard "foam" dielectric as found in typical RF based coaxial cables. While the exact dielectric make-up will vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, they are probably pretty close. How much this applies to audio based cabling, with many actually using RF based coaxial designs as their core, is beyond me. Given that my testing was conducted within the AF band, i would have to assume that the basic results would apply to audio cabling to at least some extent. Whether or not i want to fully dig into this area is a decision i'll have to think about. Sean
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Although this is a controversial and a bit off topic I would add another statement: twisting wires within an audio cable (interconnect or speaker cable), although fine for rejecting RFI en EMI, can make the sound lifeless and unengaging.

Chris

Sean,

Are you talking about an extruded dielectric that has that property?

Hi Sean, is this phenomenon you've described the reason for some manufacturers to "energize" their cables with 24V (or higher)? Audio is full of unexplained phenomena.

Chris

I stumbled across a very curious phenomena pertaining to cable dielectric at work the other day. Nobody that i have discussed the matter with can explain what is happening, yet they have seen the very easily measured and duplicated results that i'm obtaining and can't deny them.

I have ideas as to what is causing this curious phenomena, but don't want to speak up about this as of yet. I will say that what i'm seeing tends to make me believe that dielectrics, which aren't supposed to conduct, have a polarity / directionality to them i.e. they conduct better in one direction than in another.

I know that some companies already have cabling on the market that supposedly deals with this subject, but i don't think that they fully understand exactly what is going on here. I just hope that Clark Johnsen doesn't see this. Something about polarity based issues tends to get him in all worked up : ) Sean
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There are many factors other than just dielectric that affect cable sound. Geometry and the use of shielding have a greater impact on sound quality than dielectric, IMO. I've heard excellent cables that employ teflon, polyethylene or foamed PE. I suspect that many cable manufacturers feel they must use teflon insulation to be considered 'serious'.

The best cables use air dielectrics, IMO. All solid dielectrics will color the sound in some way.