cable dielectric cause of artificial sound

Agree, audiophiles are often too critical with minor details, but oxidation which occurs at the surface of a conductor must be taken seriously. Electrical signal tends to travel at the surface of a conductor, NOT the center of a conductor as some may think. One example is the conductor designed by Analysis Plus, they design a conductor which is hollow in the center. Allowing the surface of a conductor to oxidize over time will change the character of the cable and shorten cable life. Oxidation is a reason why air dielectric is not used more often.

Scar

I agree with Tplavas.
The cable geometry makes more of a difference in sound than dielectric types (if we're just counting the big 3: Teflon/PTFE, Polyethylene, cotton). Air is the best dielectric but difficult to manufacture successfully because copper will oxidize over time when exposed to air.
Manufactures feel it necessary to use PTFE because it's considered among the best solid dielectric, they can't charge a high price for an inferior insulator such as PVC.
Geometry such as multiple conductor braids, litz, effect the sound drastically. In my experience, a cable with high inductance will yield a sound that is smoother/warmer.

Steve,
In the world of audiophile where isolation cones, cable lifters, contact enhancers are used, a oxidized conductor would not go over well. Audiophiles will pay hundreds to thousands for a pair of cable where copper used are of 5 nines to 6 nines in purity, what's the the use of buying this quality if oxidation is not controlled by the designer. Oxidation shorten the life of a cable when it sound characteristic is changed due to oxidation, yes it does sound different. I don't mean it's life is shorten because it no longer work.
Your spools of bare copper wire laying around will probaly work for another 40 years, but the quality and sound won't be the same. Keep in mind, this thread started as differences between dielectric, so people are extremely critical with the slightest change.

Rja,
Cotton dielectric sound slightly less analytical than Teflon, but the ultimate is still the geometry of the cable.
Partsconnexion is another place to buy cotton dielectric wire.

Scar

I can't help but laugh at all the measurement techno-jumbo talk and electrical training with facts to back it up talk going on in an audiophile forum, this hobby is the farest thing from best measurement equal best product. Why do we even talk about spending hundreds of dollars on an audio cable when a $10 interconnect from Wal-Mart measure much better. The capacitance, resistant, inductance numbers of the most respected audiophile cable brands out there such as Kimber, Cardas, XLO, etc. consistently measured worse than some .25¢ coaxial found at the local hardware store. How can an audiophile spend hundred of dollars on a wire and corrosion is not even important? hope someone here agrees with me...
Why do so many love tube amps when a solid state has much less measured distortion? it's never been about the technical side people.
Cardas and Kimber cable measurements are in the same ballpark, why do they sound so different?

Audiophiles are the ones who hear the difference and believe, engineers are the ones who believe the numbers and never hears.

Scar

Steve,

It seems our point of view is different, you're looking at it from the technical side, mine is from an audiophile talking about audiophile cable.
Some of you sound like many of the electrical types I've talked to where everything has to be proven with numbers and measurements. These people will never believe two audio cable can sound different because it can't be measured. Audio cable is NOT and never an exact science, I repeat NOT. While skin affect does occur at frequencies above 20khz, differences can still be heard.
High End cable designers don't come up with a design so that their cable will only sound as they intend after oxidation has occured, they do their best to limit oxidation with the use of Teflon & PE, this is why we don't see many exposed copper in high end cable design.
Many cable brand has it's signature sound, for example the consistent smoothness of Cardas cables, if they don't limit oxidation after a short period of time highs will be affected and the sound is not as George Cardas intended to be.
My point of all this rambling is, oxidation has to be taken seriously in a high end cable because the signature sound that the designer intended will be no longer be after corrosion occurs. I don't think audiophiles want to spend hundreds to thousands of dollars on a corroded cable anyway.

Dazzdax,
Sorry we hijacked your thread with all this rambling.
It's what makes discussion fun!

Scar

Steve,

Tell me how am I suppose to prove an oxidized conductor sound different from a new conductor in words? Do I need to invite you over so we can compare the two for audible differences.
As I stated in previous post that audible differences in analog interconnects cannot be measured, only can be heard, so if you need technical data, and graphs, I don't have them, so this discussion comes to a close.

You ask me to establish that there is in fact an actual audible difference. In order to established that two interconnect can sound different as a fact, you just need to compare two interconnect of different geometry such as a litz design and a single conductor design with small guage and hear for yourself. Same goes for digital interconnect, two can sound different eventhough it's just passing 0's and 1's from one component to another.
You can call my claims as just opinion, but to me they are facts based on the years I've spent DIYing different cable geometry and experiences with different conductors and dielectrics. If there wasn't a difference we would not get all these people on forums asking for opinions on cables.

Scar