Cable design is a lot like creating a pizza
If you look at the construction of an RCA cable it can be very simple or can be very complicated. Eg. Audio quest higher end interconnect cables are extremely creative, the diagram on their website is visually stunning.
Ultimately, Cable design in many cables involves coloring the tonal signature. Cooking a pizza is all about making all the ingredients come together so it tastes amazing. Some do it a lot better than others and Pizza is a lot cheaper.
For cables, There are conductors, drain wires, shielding, Airfilled tubes, different gauges, etc…. Then there’s the copper strands which can be very detailed and numerous and twisted. So much going on.
With pizza you have cheese and sauce and spices and the dough and it’s all mixed together with all kinds of variation. Ultimately the sauce makes or breaks the success of a pizza slice.
With audio cables, hi end Cable designers are endlessly trying different ways to do all this. In the end they find something that sounds kind of nice. They may not know exactly why it does sound the way it does.
So that’s my take on Pizza design and cable design.
Refer to my post, dated 09-18-2022 at 09:32am (Indiana time)
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The Church of Denyin'tology holds to the faith-based religion. ONLY: well practiced at projection and cognitive dissonance! I have Physics/QED (grounded by theory/experiments post 1900) to back what I believe about wires. What’s necessary to understand what happens, regarding signals and transmission lines, is an education that extends beyond H.S. STEM courses (if you even have that much, under your collective belts). |
@holmz - I have no doubt that there are many using cables as tone controls, which simply goes to show: cables CAN/DO make a difference in reproduction. However: everyone I know that uses high-end cables, regardless of position in their system, is attempting to do as little damage to their signal* as possible. *the goal = neutrality/faithful reproduction
The Church of Denyin'tology uses measurements, based on 19th Century Electrical Theory, as the foundation for their faith. |
@holmz -
Read my 08:03pm post (that you quoted at 10:14pm) for clues.
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@holmz - Maxwell's equations weren't wrong, but: there's much more involved*, when we're dealing with retaining a plethora of frequencies/voices (instrumental and vocal), ambient/room information (height, width, depth) and placement of the afore mentioned voices, within that space. (iow: much more sensitive info, than what's contained in DC or AC). Even those involved in manufacturing PC boards for more the more sensitive RF systems, take into account the variables involved when choosing materials, as signal speed is dependent on their dielectric constants and possible frequencies to be encountered. We've engaged in this conversation before, so: I suspect your queries to be more argumentative, than inquisitive. Hence: this post is more for those extant, that are genuinely interested in the Physics of what's what with our wires. If I'm wrong: my apologies!
*http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/TransLines.pdf
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@bruce19 - Some of us have had the blessing/experience of being heavily involved with the production and recording of live sound, in a multitude of venues, over decades. Having recordings that one has personally made, can generate high confidence in one's reference materials. I've never been able to abide audible distortion*, in any system I'm responsible for, or: listen to. PLEASE: save me the, "auditory sensory memory" rhetoric, as that (as regards EVERY OTHER of the human senses) varies greatly between individuals. ie: how hard is it for you, when you answer the phone, to recognize the voice at the other end, even if you haven't heard it in years? *ie: "warmth/musicality", colorations, added pleasant harmonics, etc
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Anyone needing a rationale for experimenting with new cables in their system and/or feeling dissuaded by the Church of Denyin'tology's antiquated electrical doctrines: take heart! Many new electrical facts have been established in the past 100 years, that support audible differences, between various cables, etc. I couldn't find anything like, "Updated Electrical Theory For Idiots", but- did manage to find something resembling a cartoon, that even a child could follow. It neither mentions AC/sinusoidal waves in wires, nor does it go into the photon propagation of electromagnetic waves. It does, however, emphasize/demonstrate how Electrical Theory has progressed, since the 1800s: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGJqykotjog The following presupposes a certain amount of knowledge, in the field of modern Electrical Theory. Click, "more" in the first link's first answer, to get it's entirety. Note how it mentions the OLD, "... commonly held misconception that the flow of electricity through a wire resembles a tube filled with ping pong balls...", to which most Denyin'tologists fervently adhere: and: https://van.physics.illinois.edu/ask/listing/2348 It's an established (measured) fact that an electromagnetic wave's propagation and speed, are dependent on the materials of which the transmission line (cable) are made (ie: Dielectric Constant/permittivity). The better (lower) the Dielectric Constant the better the flow and the longer it takes for that material, to become polarized. One reason anything that comprises an RLC circuit (ie: capacitors, cables, PC boards), takes time to, "form" or, "break/burn-in".* *Something that makes the Denyin'tologists apoplectic. https://resources.pcb.cadence.com/blog/2019-dielectric-constant-of-pcb-substrate- materials-and-signal-integrity and (note: frequency figures in EVERY equation and our typical music signal is comprised of a VERY complex mix of information/frequencies, potentially lending to multiple time smears, if not handled correctly): https://unlcms.unl.edu/cas/physics/tsymbal/teaching/EM-914/section5-Guided_Waves.pdf Even the most inane (regarding the Sciences) must admit; braiding and twisting wires eliminates/reduces EMI interference. That, of a necessity, lends credence to various cable geometries. That better dielectrics enhance the propagation of electromagnetic waves (ie: your music signal), lends the same credence to choosing cables with better materials (ie: Polypropylene, Teflon, air, etc). Of course: anything the Church of Denyin'tology's popes can't fathom, they'll summarily dismiss (uneducated twits that they are). To me: it appears a tad more complex than assembling the typical pizza (and I LOVE to cook)!. Happy listening and (as Richard Feynman would often encourage): NEVER STOP LEARNING! |
A number of cable construction topics were discussed in the thread linked below. Virtually: everything/every objection any poster could come up with. Might be worth the review, to anyone interested in the baking of a better, er... I mean: the MAKING of a better cable. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/power-cable-break-in-such-a-change btw: None of my posting have ever been intended to convince ANYONE they're doing something wrong, in their own listening rooms. Far as I'm concerned: that's your domain, you're the pope in your own home and whatever makes you happy is fine with me. When I was in the system building business: (though my own taste has always been for transparency/signal integrity) whatever flavor/coloration of sound the customer desired...WELL, my philosophy was, "The customer always thinks they're right!" and it was there to make THEM happy. I just hate it when those disposed to experimenting with their own gear, are dissuaded by so much uneducated negativity, every time the subject arises. Happy listening! |
@jumia - Thanks for your forbearance and compliment. My only agenda in here, is to help others better enjoy their music. Whether what's in my reproduced musical events or the pizza before me; it's my desire to savor EVERY component in the mix. Who the hell craves a bland pizza, right? |
