Bi wiring v single run w jumpers

Sorry, Geph00078, but if you ask four audiophiles their thoughts on these 3 options, you will get 1,324,991.6666 different answers ;-) My thought is that if possible, ask the speaker manufacturer what they recommend for each pair of speakers and use that for each one. They will not all be connected the same way, but w a little luck, you will get each speaker optimized.

"Also is the top running the tweetrer or the mid and tweeter? That is another variable HATE IT."

If the speakers have jumpers on the binding posts, remove them. Then just plug speaker cables in to just one pair of binding posts and see what drivers are playing. As for the rest of it, you'll just have to experiment and see what works best. There's just too many variables and no one can know what your personal preference is.

I agree with Michael (Swampwalker) and ZD. I would add that some of those 1,324,991.6666 answers would involve four separate sub-options within Options 1 and 2:

1)Connecting to the top terminals.
2)Connecting to the bottom terminals.
3)Connecting the + conductor to the top terminal and the - conductor to the bottom terminal. Some users here have actually reported that to be preferable to the previous two sub-options.
4)Connecting the - conductor to the top terminal and the + conductor to the bottom terminal. Ditto the second sentence of sub-option 3.

You may find this thread about biwiring and this one to be of interest. As I said therein:

02-07-12: Almarg
Having followed many prior threads that have addressed this question, I can say unequivocally that a clear consensus has emerged. That consensus can be stated as follows:

It may or may not make a difference. If it makes a difference, it may or may not be for the better.

:-)

Regards,
-- Al

Not much to add to these three excellent answers. I would only question how Michael came up with two-thirds of an answer. ;^)

No one can tell you what will work best for you, just as no one can tell you what your favorite adult beverage is.
You simply have to try for yourself, and make your own decision.

Zd 542 I know which one runs what drivers My point was it is just another issue . In other words if the top just drives the tweeter I would be inclined to go to the bottom but if the top drives the mid and tweeter i would put my cables to the top as it wwould have more effect on what I hear. Under 250HZ is more feel then anything

3)Connecting the + conductor to the top terminal and the - conductor to the bottom terminal. Some users here have actually reported that to be preferable to the previous two sub-options.

This is one I see in pictures and am wondering what it really does??

This is one I see in pictures and am wondering what it really does??

If the connections are made to either the bottom two terminals or the top two terminals (as in sub-options 1 and 2), the current path between the amp and one section of the speaker would include two jumpers, while the current path between the amp and the other section of the speaker would include no jumpers.

If the connections are made to a diagonal pair of terminals (as in sub-options 3 and 4), the current path between the amp and each of the two sections of the speaker would include one jumper.

Assuming good contact integrity in all of those cases, and assuming that the length of the jumpers is minimal and that they are of decent quality, I can think of no reason why that difference between the two cases would result in sonics that are perceptibly different. But who knows?

Regards,
-- Al

OK let me ask this One run of AP Oval 9 with jumpers or bi wire (two runs) or Oval 12? I did try this on one set where I could not tie things together inside. The biwire seemed more open and slightly relaxed. Voices where more vertical With the single run of 9 I felt like I was looking at the floor where voices were coming from, so to speak. More airy

Biwiring can sound marginally better than single wire cables if a/ the speaker is properly separated in the crossover to take full advantage of biwire terminals and b/ the cables are true biwire cables (ie: physically separated into positive and negative runs either internally within a single outer shieling, or preferably a shotgun run of cable). If not, then investing in biwire cables is a waste of money.

Alternatively, if the speaker is not properly setup for biwiring, then using high end jumpers (preferably from the same manufacturer) with single wire cables should sound noticeably better than using the cheap jumper plates which come with most biwireable speakers.

I can't comment on other options suggested above as I have no experience with them.

02-03-15: Geph0007
OK let me ask this One run of AP Oval 9 with jumpers or bi wire (two runs) or Oval 12?

I suspect that "or Oval 12" was a typo, and should have been "of Oval 12." If so, consistent with what has been said above and in the other threads I linked to I would expect the answer to be speaker, system, and listener dependent, and essentially unpredictable.

Something to consider, though: Two paralleled 12 gauge wires have the same resistance as a single 9 gauge wire of the same length, so two paralleled runs of Oval 12 presumably have (to a very close approximation) the same resistance as a single run of Oval 9. And two runs of Oval 12, whether purchased as a biwire cable or as two individual cables, cost significantly less than a single run of Oval 9.

So it might therefore make sense to purchase the two runs of Oval 12, either as a biwire cable or as two individual cables, compare the resulting sonics with and without the jumpers in place, and go with whichever of those two connection arrangements sounds best. Without the jumpers you will have the 12 gauge biwire configuration you referred to. With the jumpers and the same cables you will have, at least in terms of resistance, the equivalent of a 9 gauge cable.

02-03-15: Jmcgrogan2
Not much to add to these three excellent answers. I would only question how Michael came up with two-thirds of an answer. ;^)

My guess is that Michael was envisioning that there would be an odd number of half-baked answers, plus one answer that is 1/6th baked. :-)

Regards,
-- Al

Without prejudice to the effects that the absolute benefits
are always system dependent, Some of the high-end quality
build brands are moving away from bi-wiring in favour of
shotgunned runs and jumpers configurations.

Biamping ... Different story.

E.g. NORDOST

http://www.nordost.com/downloads/NorseJumperinstructions.pdf

CHORD

http://www.chord.co.uk/help-and-information/speaker-cable-
guide/bi-wire-or-single-wire/

"... Many hi-fi and home cinema loudspeakers have two
pairs of binding posts. This allows the speaker to be either
bi-wired using two sets of loudspeaker cable or bi-amped
using two amplifiers.

As a general rule (and there will always be exceptions) we
tend to find that bi-wiring will open out the sound stage
and increase perceived levels of detail. However, single
wiring will often sound the most musically coherent. There
is also an issue with single and bi-wire speaker cables. In
all the research we have carried out, a single wire speaker
cable out-performs a bi-wire cable of equivalent cost. This
makes a lot of sense; the single wire speaker cable has two
high quality conductors and the bi-wire cable requires four.
So for a given budget, we believe that a single wire cable
will always out-perform the equivalent bi-wire cable, so
much so that we no longer produce dedicated bi-wire
cables..."

For me:

(i) in my high-end "A" system, shotgunned NORDOST
Freys with matched FREY jumpers bested all contenders and
pretenders. (including bi-wires) - full stop. The
differences were not subtle. The only thing stopping me from
moving even higher in the NORDOST chain is price and also
limiting returns of the added big-time ka-ching. In
fairness, having matched FREY ICs for synergy with the
speaker cables helps.

(ii) in my more modest "B" system, I actually run
bi-wired sets. I do so primarily as a "pick 'em"
choice between quality silver-plated OCC copper single runs
with matched jumpers, versus, all-Cu copper quality bi-wires
as leftover surplus sets from prior systems.

I did not see any noteworthy differences between them in
THAT system. I retained the bi-wires and sold the
singles/jumper sets as hedge for potential flexibility later
(the bi-wires can be re-terminated into a shotgunned and
jumpers configuration)

FWIW.....

Good stuff I have the oval 9 (newer version ) I have owned for 3 years I owned the original from 2001 to 2011. I think the original my be more pleasing to me even though the newer version has sharper images/
I am on loan with the bi wire oval 12. If we were comparing bi wire and single runs of the same cable ie Oval 9 I would think that would be a no brainer going to the bi wire but we are talking one size of bi wire and one size of single hence the question. It was touched on by one of you.

"02-03-15: Geph0007
OK let me ask this One run of AP Oval 9 with jumpers or bi wire (two runs) or Oval 12? I did try this on one set where I could not tie things together inside. The biwire seemed more open and slightly relaxed. Voices where more vertical With the single run of 9 I felt like I was looking at the floor where voices were coming from, so to speak. More airy"

When dealing in areas involving biwiring, jumpers, etc.., results are application specific. You have to try different combinations, and see what works the best. A good portion of it depends on your equipment. My Vandersteen's are probably the best example of how biwiring makes a positive difference. Using 2 separate runs of cables, with them, makes a very big difference. On my other speakers, Wilson's, they don't even believe in biwiring. They feel so strongly about that, they only put 1 set of binding posts on the speakers. I couldn't biwire them if I wanted.

The only thing I can tell you for sure about all this, is to not let these relatively minor cabling issues, compromise or overlook areas in your system that are more important.

I am trying to compare these three sets of speakers on an even playing field That is why the issue is brough up.

"02-04-15: Geph0007
I am trying to compare these three sets of speakers on an even playing field That is why the issue is brough up."

3 sets of speakers or 3 sets of cables? If its 3 sets of cables, the only way you can get a level playing field is to try them on the actual speaker you will be using. Cables don't always sound consistent from one speaker to the next. I think you might be over thinking this. AP has a decent reputation for working with a wide variety of gear, and you already own it, so there's no risk. However you configure the cables, I would be surprised if you didn't get good results. It can happen, but I don't think its likely.

My guess is that Michael was envisioning that there would be an odd number of half-baked answers, plus one answer that is 1/6th baked.

Almost, Al...It's the audiophiles that are half-baked ;-)

I have a Mac amp. Someone on this site recommended running the bass speaker to the 8 ohm tap and the mids and highs to the 4 ohm tap. This made a bigger difference than running jumpers or bi-wiring in my set up. What it did in my system is improve the bass response and smooth out the mids and highs. Before doing so some music sounded a little bright or edgy. Just moving to the 4 ohm taps with jumpers smoothed out the mids and highs but I lost bass. Adding the oval 9's to the 8 ohm tap brought the bass back nice tight and strong. Play something you know well and experiment. What sounds good on one system may not on another. Everything is system dependent. Good luck.

"Someone on this site recommended running the bass speaker to the 8 ohm tap and the mids and highs to the 4 ohm tap. This made a bigger difference than running jumpers or bi-wiring in my set up."

That is biwiring. In order to do what you just described, you need to use 2 separate runs of cables. Unless I didn't read your post right.

I ran two sets of speaker cables. A pair of oval 9 from the 8 ohm tap on my amp to the bass tap on my speakers. Then ran a second pair of oval 9 from the 4 ohm tap on my amp to the mid and highs on my speakers. Results were far better than running a single pair of speaker wire with jumpers or bi-wiring.