Biwiring can only used on speakers set up with separate terminals for LF and mid/HF drivers. It involves splitting the output from the amp so that one + & - goes to the LF driver and one + & - to the mid/Hf driver(s). This can be done with two sets of cables joined at the amp end (dual or shotgun biwire), or with certain cables, there are individual wires within the cable that are combined at the amp and and terminated separately at the speaker end (single biwire). Advantages often debated, search threads for numerous discussions.
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Myep, If you go back to the first page of the forums, use the search box feature and do a search on "biwire", you should find a lot of good information from various past threads as well. Good luck! |
When I bi-wired my speakers, not only did I hear a difference, my amp ran cooler. I run two separate wires to each speaker and each wire is hooked to its own terminal on the amp. |
bi-wiring offers the opportunity to allow the specifically assigned drivers to draw current through separate sets of wires, instead of all of the current through one set. it also allows ya to sleep at night knowing you're using the full capability of your biwireable speakers. |
Thanks for all the good information. |
Myep: There is no technical advantage to biwiring. The same current is reaching the crossover whether you biwire or not. The only value to the second set of terminals on speakers is that it allows bi-amping, which can be worthwhile in some cases. |
Jostler not quite so,Yes & No. Some speakers have seperate crossover boards and are bi-ampable and bi-wireable and will benefit, while others won't benefit. Its has to do with the speaker design. Angela gives good advice, a search on the front page for the discussion area will give you plenty of info from knowledgeable posters. Have fun. |
to test jostler3's contention on a set of biwireable speakers, remove the conducting straps linking the two sets of terminals then connect speaker cables to either set of terminals. if the speaker still plays full range, then he's right you've been had. if not, you can certainly expect the dedicated high and low frequency sections to only pull the current they require. sure the signal is full range but the current demands of the high and low frequency sections are quite different and will only flow thru the speaker cables to which they are attached. try it you'll like it. |
Waste of $. We tell people this and they rarely listen.
Their speakers are bi-wireable, so they think this is best.
Dunlavy, Sonus, Genesis, and others agree.
Speakers are "bi-ampable", and somehow this has changed to "bi-wirable".
Also, few people know what "true bi-wiring" is vs bi-wiriing.
Keep in mind, we dealers make more on bi-wire cables, and so do the cable companies. |
Bi-wiring can indeed produce a difference, and in some cases a significant improvement. But the speakers that improve most from bi-wiring from my experience are some of the British small monitor speakers where they have tried to achieve transparency at a low price point from using a minimalist cross-over. Speakers like Thiels however involve a lot of effort in the cross-over to get it right and nullify the benefits of bi-wiring. Shotgun bi-wiring is the main area where you get different results, not necessarily a better one - principally because you are really changing the load seen by the amp. |
Hellohifi, please explain "true bi-wiring". Your post is suggesting that speaker manf. are just adding a second cosmetic pair of speaker posts, and that there is no difference in internal crossover design between a bi-wire
speaker and single wire speaker. Surely you are not suggesting this are you? |
Well said Hellohifi. If they insist on buying it then keep selling it. |
Megasam: Speaker manufacturers put dual sets of posts on their products for two reasons: 1) It permits biamping, which really can make a difference; and 2) It makes their products palatable to those who think biwiring makes a difference. After all, they may think you're a scientific illiterate, but they still want to sell to you. |
this head in the sand stuff cracks me up. you figure it out, haha |
Jostler3 I read through all your posts the past 30 days and found two very disturbing tendancies. First, rather than making your statements as opinion, they are more like a lecture. Like your view is the right one and that's that. The second is that like a few others here you act like you might indeed be the second coming on Einstein, and therefor no need to question your scientific fact. I see nothing in this post that tells me you can prove bi-wiring does not work. I really don't even care, but as you stated elsewhere I too want to protect the new audio hobbiest from unfounded theory or simple opinion. I find the basis of your posts to be of merit, I really think your all mighty aproach will tend to bring out arguments and your point will be lost. J.D. |
Jadem6: Fair point. An awful lot of statements appear on Audiogon without the explicit disclaimer, "This is only my opinion, but..." On the other hand, once you mention "science," you automatically sound more authoritative, even if you're full of potting soil. I'm not a scientist, and I couldn't prove to you myself that biwiring doesn't work if my life depended on it. But I've read several explanations of the electrical impact of biwiring which, as far as this layman can tell, clearly suggest that the signal that reaches your speaker terminals is exactly the same whether you biwire or not. And I've never read any cogent explanation for why they'd be different (though I've seen some quite fanciful attempts!). My aim is only to suggest that a little skepticism is in order, and I'll try to be more explicit about that in the future. |
Excellant explaination Jostler3, I find it much easier to believe in your point when you state things like "I couldn't prove to you myself that biwiring doesn't work if my life depended on it. But I've read several explanations..." Thank-you for taking my point without defence, very impressive! J.D. |
How about this senerio. Lets take a speaker like the Aerial 10t that has seperate crossover boards and as stated in the manual is bi-ampable and bi-wireable. Out of the single pair of speaker outputs from the amp you connect 2 pair of speaker cable to the speaker. But use a larger guage cable to the low freq crossover because the large driver just loves the less resistive flow from the larger cable. But use a thinner cable for the high freq crossover because the mid and tweet just sound so much more lush and yields more detail to the sound using the higher quality thinner cable. Now i'm no scientist either but i do read and can sure hear. Any opinions. |
There are many sites that will technically expalin bi-wiring
and the way their crossover design is different than single
wire crossover, and how that effects the sound......go to google.com and search bi-wire design speakers.
The valid argument is do two sets of $500 speaker cables on biwire speaker sound better than a $1000 single set speaker
cables? Obviously some customers and some speaker designers
feel not, and I say that is a legit point of debate.
Mikec, I do hear improvement in sound with biwires I have tried, but it all goes back to my point above about what is most cost effective for owner.........if money is no object by all means biwire. |
Thanks Megasam, i do own the 10t's and i do run seperate cable prs and do hear a noticeable improvement in sound. Maybe some day when i have another 4k to burn i'll add another amp but in the meantime don't touch my Bi-Wire please. It sounds good the way it is . Where are those copper straps anyway!!! --------------> |
Sam i went to google.com and searched for Bi-Wire and the very first link was an article from soundstage on bi-amping and bi-wiring and according to the soundstage writer. If your speakers are bi-ampable and bi-wirable (seperate x/o's) you will hear better sound using seperate cable prs (true bi-wire) and even better using 2 stereo amps (be careful to those who want to try this, best to use the same amps and recommend investigating first). For anyone who wants to read about bi-wiring take Megasams leed and go to google.com and type Bi-Wire in the search box and read for yourself. I promise no more on bi-wiring from me, its water under the bridge. |
The audible benefits or otherwise of bi-wiring are very dependent on the speaker and so it is easy for one person to experience a significant benefit and another to hear no difference. The key reason why a benefit can accrue from bi-wiring is simply due to the fact that bi-wiring a two-way speaker provides star-earthing at the amp, rather than at the cross-over. If the connection between the earth point on the cross-over and the amp has no resistance (impossible) then there is no benefit to bi-wiring. The size of the benefit depends on the potential (pardon the pun) for the current that is created by a slightly floating earth (when not bi-wiring) to cause audible interaction between the drivers. This depends on cross-over design and the impedence characteristics of the separate drivers. Double bi-wiring is not necessarily an improvement - it provides a different resistance and capacitance for the amp than single (or internal) bi-wiring and this may or may not be beneficial. |
