Analog Room in San Jose is the Sonus Faber dealer in south bay, all of their listening rooms are small and they have both Amati and Strad in the same small room, about the size of your room with shorter ceiling. Amati Anniv does sound great in that room, but does not give you the grand scale of music when setup in a larger room.
I agree the old Amati is very sensitive to placement, I own a pair in 14x18 room and I can hear 0.5" difference easily. But in my room, the scale of music is big, grand, and coherent; I do not feel the urge to upgrade even though I know the Anniv is more dynamic and transparent. |
Mr. Serblin is involved with "Elipsa" as well, some 1 year ago (maybe more) he was listening-voicing and experimenting with the new paper-woodfibers midrange(in cooperation with scanspeak) which is the new variable for this new speaker and also is exclusive for Sonus Faber for 1year.
The rest recipe was already the there. The Strad's cabinet reduced size, minus one woofer and a newer better than Cremona's tweeter version.
I guess (not heard Elipsa yet) the very interesting part (regarding Cremona line) is the midrange (of course all the other parts are superior to Cremona series).
But for tda2200 this is not the right speaker, this baffle speakers needs even more space and width to play the best.
Tda220 you may even consider the Domus piano , but a second-hand or demo Cremona is a far better choice (with all restrictions for your room already told). |
Cesare Bevilacqua with some help... |
Who designed the Elipsa then? I heard it's nowhere near the Cremona because of a new tweeter, a new midrange, and a different woofer. |
Hi the Elipse is not a good choice i think
its a completly new model
its more like a cremona with deeper bass
and its not build by the wizard him self mister Franco Serblin.
The cremona was actualy his last real creation before the stradaviari.
Derfor its the cremona or the anniversario because in the amati anniversario its still his designes working togheter
regards |
Maybe place the spikes on small platforms that sides on the carpet and the carpet working as a vibration killer The speakers should be firm on the floor. Bass frequencies are not absorbed by a carpet -- they can go right through. |
Tda2200
Sonus faber just introduced a new speaker which looks like the strativari.....i think its called "Elise" or something....maybe you want to consider this speaker as well....there are many way to reduce bass like speaker positioning or the material underneath the speaker,maybe some cables.....First find the speakers that are suitable for your room and then you will work your way.....it shouldnt be a problem...
Happy Listening |
Hi
I have decided to get the cremonas or maybe even a smaller sonus faber and waith for the a cheap pair of second hand anniversarios in the future.
I have never owned a pair os sonus faber speakers and will rather take it slow and easy upgrading along the way enjoying myself each step of the way
also my system as it is right now are so good that i have a gut feeling that no matter what speakers i hook my systm up with it will sound insane.
One thing that still puzzels me is regarding my thick carpet and fullrange speakers.
Couldent i explore this so that the speakers will paly less basslike ???
Maybe place the spikes on small platforms that sides on the carpet and the carpet working as a vibration killer.?
regards
. |
Well amazing that i can beleive.
But maybe a littel more detajled describsion would be nice.
Kops what amplification do you use on them ?
What i found out with old amati was that the where best mach with tubes and the source most be of high kval.
What about the anniversarios and amplification ?
regards |
AMAZING.....(I ve listened to kops system...);) |
Hi kops
I will figure out somthing ; )
Eny way besides all that,
you have lived with this speakers and know what the are all about
I have only listend to them very brifly in a room i diddend know and with components and music i diddent know.
How would you describe them ?
regards |
with the carpet absolutely not!
in bare floor ok, in wooden floor better a granite slab or special aftermarket products (sympsium, finite elemente, sistrum, etc). |
Hi kops
Ok i see yout point i have never seem but il bet the look very beatiful.
What about som kind of chone that the speaker`s spiks can be placed upon ?
regards |
Tda2200
I have seen Amatis and Stradivaris in both colours, for me Stradivaris are best in graphite and Amatis in Violino rosso (which I've). Memento is better also in Violino Rosso IMHO. But in very modern design interiors graphite seems the best choice.
As for spikes I mean to drill the carpet with the spike.
Wooden floors is a problem here. |
:)
my friend i dont want to discourage you....of course amati will be great even in your small room but you will not enjoy them 100 per cent!
if there is chance of moving in the future in another room, get them, if not why dont you get a speaker that will interact better with your room-system!!!
But they are definitely Great speakers!
just my 2 cents!
Happy listening and good luck with your choice!!!!
Whatever you decide you will be happy! |
Anniversario in 16 sq meters??????? Pleas dont say it like that ; )
Yes the amatis in a 16 sq meter room
regards |
Anniversario in 16 sq meters??????? |
Kops
You are suddenly right its not a questian IF i get the amatis its more a questian when .
One think (IMHO Annis are better in "violino rosso" and Strads in graphite)
have you seen the anniversario in both colours ? i have only seend it Graphite Beatiful.
Also what do you mean here ? (the spikes on the carpet and pass the carpet down to the floor)
Regarding the YTER cables
If enything hifi cable related ever maid sence to me it was to use the same cables as used inside the speakers
so the are a MUST for sure.
I know that im proberly speaking to myself here
But a general rule with roomcorrection is to always have the bass in the corners (this is of cause the worst place if you diont have roomcorrection)
Tact lyngdorf audio makes there speakers to fit in he corners.
Ofcause the best place to have the tweeter is not in the corner but in my room it WORKS and when the speakers are placed there i my room i get over a meter on each side from the tweeter to the walls.
The idea to have the bass placed in the corners is to activate the whole corner and also make sure that all the bass energy is located in one place (two) and here you can control it best.
If a fullrange speaker is placed fully out into a say smalish room you will get refections from ALL areas and wil mess up the time domain completly
When i had the gamuts i did alot of experimenting and the best sound i ever got in my room was to place them in the corners and run a full roomcorrection.
I understand why its hard for other people to understand how roomcorrection works because it turns it upside down how we are used to think about speakers and most importantly speaker placment.
I have had several long talks with Peter Lyngdorf (owner of lyngdorf audio dali speakers and NAD) and all thise talks confirms my own findings
Earlyer in my hifi life if somone told me that the would place a large speaker in the corners and use krell showclass amps i would ask if he intended to bring down the hause.
enyway thanks for all the replays
regards |
I see yout point ; )
but my amp works not like other amps
I have heard it with gamut l3( my former speakers) jm lab utopia micro SF cremona auditor
The result is the soundstage is like one big voice No deepth and the dynamics is limited
Even with my very temporay speaker (system audio) wich is a small fullranger
Wich costs only a tiny fragment of the gamut or jm labs
sound smuch more satisfing.
My amp is TRUE neutral it makes other solid state amps sound like subwoffer amps
When we hooked it up to the b&w 801 wich is a xtremly power hungry speaker it sounded like a big monitor
with a big amp
The shop wich is the major store here in denmark sells classe gear and other higend gear also tact/lyngdorf audio
said the the millenium was the only amp the had heard that truly broad the best out of the B&W the playd tight and LOUD
the said that other amps even monster size classe amps maid the 801 sound to heavy and slow in the lower regions
If god forbits me having sonus faber florstanders i will find a nother floorstander ; )
regards
|
Tda2200
I fear that if you don't get the Annis you will never get them out of your mind, so search for a good deal. IMHO Annis are better in "violino rosso" and Strads in graphite.
If you finally end up with Annis there 2 things you should beware: the spikes on the carpet and pass the carpet down to the floor & Yter speaker cable.
Annis also "feel" every change so a good dedicated line for the hifi with a finetuning fuse in the breakerbox will reflect in Annis performance.
Then make your prayers that the Eq God help you through along with the Room-treatment semi-god.
Since you are Danish visit www.sonusfaberclub.com there are many Danes there among other friends. |
Tda, I made the same judgement as it appears you are about to make, regarding a large and great speaker in a small room. Easy to do, since the large speaker not only generally looks better but will probably sound better if you ever get a big room. Like I said in my previous post, maybe try the Guarneri's( either model) and see how these work. When I sold my large speaker and replaced with the G's they were a revelation in my small room. I suspect that you would find that in your small room the G's will sound better than the Anniv's just because of less room interaction and the fact that they physically take up less space.Even with room correction, you will not be able to get the max out of the Anniv's and probably can get close to the max out of the G's. ( Your amp should work fine with both speakers).
Why not try and put a small speaker in your room as a test vs. a large speaker and see what the results are.
Good luck with your choice. |
Tda,
You're probably right, and maybe I'll be calling on you for EQ advice!
John |
Jamnesta
I have heard that the ms5`s is proberly the worst speaker to place in a small room .
I have seen it and heard it
BIG awsome speaker but very Loud and deep bass
I will not stuff enything into a pair of annaversario amati never ever ; )
I will use the millenium Eq to eleminate unwanted bass
regardws |
Thanks for all the replays
Must say that im not expecting super results .
And if it wassent for my amps nature i would have bourgt a monitor for sure.
but is there eny one that will back up Kops about the fact that The Cremona would be the best choice for now.?
Or is it exactly the same problem regardless of witch fullrange SF i chose and ther for i might as well get the Amati`s?
regards |
Along these same lines a recent Great room remodeling project has resulted in my large floorstanders; (Dali MS5) being exiled to a small bedroom for the forseeable future. I was wondering about simply plugging up the bass ports...voila, sealed box design...? The idea is that this would help with bass boom...if not speaker coherence. I know this messes around with the designers intent but hope for a temperary solution till the room situation can be delt with, ala Joey v's oh so pragmatic advice (you know you want em ;-)! The Dali's haven't made it upstairs so I can't comment on the thory yet, although I've heard of some manufacturers offering port plugs with their speakers for "tuning" purposes. |
Although I'm sure that the Annis are borderline too big for your room, I will have to say that if you can, go for it. Just in case you have the ability to move to a larger room and you have a technically superior speaker from the getgo. |
I just want to emphasize that the Stradivari is NOT for small rooms. That really doesn't work at all! I've heard them in smaller spaces and they sound quite terrible.
They need a big room to do their magic. 25m2 is on the very low end of the scale, I would suggest 35m2 and above, 40-45 and above for really good results, preferably with high ceilings (3m+). These guys need air! |
Good luck, Tda!
An Amati in each corner with the two ports firing into an horn (the room floor + corner walls)... won't be easy to set up!
Your room is too small for bass and I strongly suggest you gauge the sound by focusing on midbass -- NOT bass (i.e. disregard if you can "hear" 40Hz: focus on if you can "feel" 40Hz, etc). |
This decribes pretty much why i even think of getting the amatis
The Sonus Faber Amati Anniversario will be happy both in a large and a
small room. The Stradivari, however, requires at least 25 square meters
to be able to perform its whole register.
Regarding dynamics, the Amati Anniversario EASILY outperforms both the
older Amati and the Cremona. The very exclusive Skaaning drivers, made
to Sonus Fabers requirements, and the new filter topology are both
responsible for that.
Like HiFi Choice put it in their initial test of the Amati
Anniversario:
"-Anybody NOT liking the Amati Anniversario must have had their
FUN-button removed long ago."
I think that sums it up quite nicely.
Please get back to me if you have any further questions.
Best regards |
Thanks Kops
I see your point clearly and you are proberly right about me allready have maid up my mind.
Regarding floorstanders vs monitors monitors is out of the questian
My amp simply dossent performe well with monitors
No bass.
I know that if i get the anniversarios the job to make them work proberly will be very complexed.
I almost never listend to loud music only to show of somthimes but 99.9 % of the time i listen at moderate/low levels.
regarding my listning room i have alot of knowledge about roomacoustics .
Because i have had roomcorrection for a long time both the old tact2.2 and the new lyngdorf roomperfect .
I also pay alot of atension to the room when im listning to new gear at a new place.
If there ever was a 16 sq meter room that couldt hause the annies it would be mine .
But maybe The Cremona would be a great start because the can be bourgt cheap and sold later with no loss in value.
And simply see if a floorstander will work in my room.
But if a secondhand pair in graphite anniversario comes up for sale at a good price.
I do think i will take the plunge.
regards |
Tda2200 I'm not an expert, but I think Anniversarios need biiger space than 16sq.meters.....I had Cremona at 25 sq.m. and I was surrounded by music. Annis brings the whole orchestra in your house and the orchestra needs some room to deploy. I even guess that Anniversario designed for bigger rooms than 16sq.m.
As I see it your mind and brain already bought Annis (it's so easy when listen and see this speaker) so If you don't get it you spent your time dreaming it so I understand it's difficult for you.
I think Cremona floorstander it's a better match (since you want floorstander) with to much room correction and good driving it might work. And also nomral decibels.
I used to know a guy with previous Amati in a small room like yours, he had the delight of music in low volumes and overdamped room the amp was YBA passion. But not very loud and complex passages, the room couldn't take it.
I think the best is to try it in your listening room, afterall you paying a lot of money for a reference Homage speaker and maybe one of the best ever Sonus Faber speakers (if not the best yet).
Also consider Branimir's views more thorough.
George |
Here is the mail i got from the disbutiator
I will of course also answer in English, even though I have a feeling
that I could understand you even if you spoke in Danish.
Well well. Here goes.
I have had many opportunities to demo and install both the older
version
of Amati and the new Anniversario. Maybe a bit surprising, I feel that
these are two quite different speakers. The first time I set up the
Anniversarios, I was very surprised by the fact that they started to
sound good even before I had done the final positioning of the
speakers.
And from brand new too!
The original versions are much more picky about placement. If you do
not
do it right, the midrange will overpower the presentation, creating an
uncomfortable feeling of too prominent voices and an upfront
presentation in general. This is not the case with the Anniversario.
After two more installations with the Amati Anniversario, my initial
impressions were just reinforced. When I met Giovanni and Cezare at the
London Show, I brought that fact up. I even had a nickname for the
Anniversario - I called it the "plug-and-play speaker" from Sonus
Faber.
They laughed, but explained to me that they had laid down hard work
with
the Anniversario to make the midrange integrate better with the rest of
the spectrum, and to make the speaker as linear and phase correct over
the entire frequency spectrum as they possibly could. This work also
resulted in higher overall efficiency, a more tolerant amplifier load,
and much improved dynamics compared to its predecessor. To show this
off
at the London show, they used a simple PrimaLuna ProLogue 2 amplifier
to
drive them. This system pleased more than 50 spectators at a time. I
was
quite impressed.
The specific pair that Jan Ostrom is willing to sell to you has been
installed by me personally at his very nice HiFi shop in Umea, Northern
Sweden. It is a very lively-looking pair, with especially nice wood
veneer, so I remember that Jan felt lucky over the looks of the
speaker.
I feel that you have the necessary environment and experience to get
spectacular results from this speaker. 16 square meters may not seem
much, but since you have two room treatment options (one manual and one
digital option), your main concern should be to find a listening
position that puts you on the correct distance from the speakers. You
do
not want to sit too close to any multi driver speaker. Even though the
main drivers (tweeter and midrange) are very close on the Amati
Anniversario, I would recommend that you place yourself on a distance
at
least 2 meters from the speakers, preferably a little more, for best
results.
So my advice is clearly to go for it. If you can afford it, it will
definitely enrichen your life. Your amplifier is more than adequate to
drive these beauties.
Jan is a good and trustworthy guy too. You will have no problems with
him.
Please get back to me if you have any further questions. |
Hi branimir
I respect your view about my oppinions.
Regarding the lat-2000 no i have never heard them.
My amp is a aberdeencomponents moddified tact millenium mk4/mk3.
The tda2200 is not good enourgh for speakers like amati anniversario.
The moded millenium is a intirely diffrent story
best i have ever heard.
here in denmark the country wher Dynaudio scanspeak seas vifa and Audio technologies are from the gamut l3 is regarded the best there is for a two way speaker.
The krells im sure the are amazing .
I do know that it normaly will a very bad idea haveing the annis in a place as mine.
But every thing is very system depending .
For starters my amp sounds nothing like a krell amp.
Its completly neutral and if you pare it with small 2 way speakers if will sounds xtremly smooth but booring because it dossent have that larger then life bass output.
The millenium loves fullrange speakers but it never overpowers the bass.
Its also very powerfull it has over 110 peak current.
Heard it with B&W 801 d and it hold them with iron grib.
Im not a huge fan of roomcorrection but the EQ in my amp dos a marvelos job controling the bass in a system.
As i see it its the annis or another smaller fullrange speaker thats maybe a littel smaller.
regards |
I use the older version of the Guarneri in my very small room, which is 11X10 with a vault ceiling. IMHO, the original G is a superior speaker to the M's. It certainly was in my room.
Your mileage might differ. |
Well... I do not agree at all with you regarding Krell LAT-2000. Did you audition them personally? No? Ok, then just to point out few things they sound amazing on London show 2006.
Anniversario's in room small as yours? Your SF distributor said they fit nicelly in 16m2 room? Another Ok form me...
I use them in 35m2 room BTW and this speakers are not perfectly neutral IMHO.
You plan to use Anniversario's in room corners and toe them in to cross in front of you? Sorry, they are not designed to be setup that way... Remember, I own them as well as my audio pal here on Agon(Kops) and we both agreed that Anniversario's are moderately demanding in setup.
You also plan to you TDA2200 to drive Anniversario's?
I am REALLY sceptic about results that you will get with that amp in your room...
Room correction unit with Anniversario's?
Do not get me wrong, but I find your setup plan very,very strange indeed.
Any way,
Good luck! |
Hi branimir
If i where to chose the memento i would sit 3.5 meters from them .
Regarding the Krells i dont beleive the would be a stepup from the gamut l3`s.
For one the are using the same scanspeak drivers.
Also the are build by Lars goller witch is the former head ingeneer at scanspeak and is the brian beheind scanspeak drivers ,and besdes that the sound seriously good.
bettter then the cremona auditor for sure.
But still the dont provide that full range musical vindue.
My room has a complete seeling treatment and a Thick wall to wall carpet and wall treatment behind my listning position.
The gamuts are to small for my room simpel as that the dont go deep enourgh.
Actually i had a long talk with the Nordic Sonus faber distrubiator witch has set up Alot of stradivari´s and amatis annis and also has alot of personal experinces with the both the old and the new amati.
He said that the amati anni will not be a problem for my room .
He told me that the amati anniversario is xtremly well balanced and the are the easyest of the homage speakers to setup and also quit room friendly.
He also pointed out that the anniversario actually where more room frindly then the old homage because the midrange driver in the old homage could be to much in your face if the speakers wher not placed correct .
What he pointed out was that the floor would be the biggest problem ,
also as you point out a minimun of 3 meters to the drivers is needed
But if i placed them fare out in the corners and toed in i would have plenty of room on the sides of the speakers and a listning distance of 3.4 meters to the bas drivers of the amati.
And when I pointed out that i had ATB room correction in my amp he said go for it for sure.
Because when i had the Lyngdorf Roomperfect system the best spot to place the speaker wher in the corners and toe then in so the cross right before my head .
This way the base only travels from the corners and here i can controll them via the the roomcorrection in my amp.
My old system consisted of tactaudio w210 corner subs and the gamut l3 all driven by to lyngdorf tda2200+ amps and a cd-1 player
The big corner subs consists of 2 *10 inch drivers in each of the to corner woffers and are placed in the corners.
And the produse some serious bass sounds .
At least as powerfull as the stradivari
since the are very efficent and driven by a currents trong fully digital amp.
but via the advanced eq is was abel to get a perfect well balanced sound with plenty of deep base in that room.
Just use the atb to locate where the bass overpowers the room and its fixed.
The roomtretment will do the rest.
But as i have experinted before no body really know how its going to sound until the are in my room.
regards |
Cremona Auditor on dedicated stand or Concerto Domus.
Not even Guarneri Memento... Why? Its stand it simply too tall for your room. My friend tried to put Memento's in room little bit bigger then yours(5m x 3.85m) with not so good resluts. You need to seat at least 2.5m from Memento's to get decent sound.
And forget about Amati Anniversario, Elipsa or Cremona. They are all way too big for your room.
You currently own Gamut L3? Good small speaker IMO.
Do you want one of the best small speakers? Then go ahead and try to audition Krell LAT-2000 or Wilson Duette.
Both(specially Krell LAT-2000!) are way better in all respects then Memento's IMHO. And I own Anniversario's BTW so, I am not biased against Sonus Faber. |
Yes saki yes you answer is correct .
Why only sonus faber ? Simply because I love them.
No turning back now );
regards |
That is roughly 12.5ft. X 13.5ft. with almost 11ft. ceilings .
Why only Sonus Faber ? |
sorry for the not so clear describtion its 415 cm(4.15 meter) times 385(3.85 meter) and cm 3.30meter height
regards |
Thats like 4feet by 4feet.... |
