Has anyone compared, Gryphon Diablo, Gamut Di150, Vitus SS101, Krell FBI, APL UA-S1 Jeff Rowland Continuum 500? Please add what you found to be best integrated.
I did an extensive comparison of the Gryphon Diablo and the Gamut DI150. The Gryphon is an excellent amp, but there was no question in my mind that the Gamut was clearly superior, and I bought it. The Gryphon seemed to have slightly more bass weight and was slightly richer, but also a little more congested, cloudy, or confused, especially when many instruments came together. The Gryphon also had slight hardness to some higher frequency female voices and some of the bass notes. The Gamut was immediately much more open and spacious with lots of air between the instruments, and a much more 3D soundstage. Great depth and width! The voices and instruments themselves sounded cleaner and more accoustic to me, as if someone cleaned the window you are looking through, but also a slightly leaner sound throughout. To me the Gamut had less bass, but the bass was more musical and cleaner. Since owning and running it in fully, I have found the slightly lean sound is gone, with the right choice of cables.
Berning ZH270. It may not be what you expect, with a volume pot and two line in,but it is something to have heard. I own the Accuphase E550, which I consider wonderful, and on a par with the Einstein "the absolute tune", Pathos TT - the Berning is something alltogether different. good luck
No such thing as best because there is also synergy components at play. But I would put Plinius, Accuphase, Gryphoon, Jeff Rowland, ML 383 on that list as well.
I compared the Diablo against Graff (many models), Consonance (single ended and forbidden city), Mcintosh MC-2102+C2200, aesthetix calypso + atlas, edge (the 10.000 model), nagra ( the pyramid monblocks) are quite a few I can remember!
Trust me, you cant go wrong with the gryphon!
It has all the advantages of good solid state amps plus a great timbre and lack of harshness in the upper frequencies!
I don't recall details of his sub. It looked prototype-ish, so it's likely to be something custom. Given his fondness of Magico, that would be a good suspect, but nothing more than conjecture.
Rowland + Magico sounds nice. Jonathan Valin recommended to run the Magicos with the Gamut Di150, so I guess that will be another nice match, but I still wonder if it can touch the Vitus SS101? Dave is Rowland using a custom Magico sub?
It indicates you compared to MBL amplification but not what kind of hybrid amp you normally use with your planars?
If the planars are anything like Magnepan, I could relate to how hybrid amplification could add a nice touch, again depending on taste. I would expect the same to be true with MBL speaks.
Personally, I believe discussing the "best" integrated in the context of specific speaker designs and how they are different makes for a more valuable discussion.
All, what we still do not know is what Kiwi meant by "ad a "listen" to the C500. How many hours of break in did the unit have when he performed critical listening? How many hours of active warmup did the unit have since the last power down? We do not know Kiwis expectations nor his sonic reference. Let us also consider that one audiophile's bleached sound is one other audiophile's accuracy. I have for example listened to Spectron only on SP speakers. . . and vocals where anything but sounding bleached to me, rather, I found them to sound grand and nuanced. But then, I am admittedly not fond of typical tube sound. Kiwi's 'bleached vocals" may be nothing more than a matter of differing expectations. G.
Rowland has Magico's big, little (they're large for minis) mini-monitors that he uses with some custom sub. He recently sold his prototype big Magicos that he tri-amped. Anyway, the little bit that I heard was...magic.
Rowland-Magico, that's a match made in...Rowland's shop, if not heaven.
I'm interested in what amplification Kiwi thinks does sound best with the MBLs. Back in accordance with my point that there is no "best", from what I've read their sound in general leans more towards the detailed and analytic side of things, so I could understand the preference for a hybrid design in that case.
Regarding the technical suitability of the Rowland/ICE, I think his review confirmed that the Rowland did take full control of the difficult to drive MBLS, which is what I would expect and even demand, he just had a few reservations about the resulting sound from his perspective. That is why technical fit of components is key, but that alone does not guarantee a match to tastes.
I've never actually heard MBLS, but from what I have read (a lot), they share a difficult to drive, power hungry load with the Ohms and a similar design to some extent, but I suspect the sound from the specialized omni driver array used is much different otherwise. The Ohm Walsh driver is also a unique design but not totally unlike a conventional dynamic design. I think Class D could work very well in the case of the Ohms and produce a sound that one can "warm up to". Tube amplification is right out with either Ohm or MBL I believe do to the difficult load and power consumption.
clarification I heard the Spectron with Wilson Watt/Puppy 7s. Ive only heard the big MBL101e's with 9008. I dont find them as hard to place as every body mentions though. The Music seems like a really nice speaker, too big though. Im trying to find a pair of speakers with big sound and small footprint. Magico with Rowland, thats interesting.
Hi Dave, Mapman - i've responded to your questions in the review section of the forum as i didn't want to divert attention away from the central thread topic. Regards.
Perrew, I'm worried that if you tried Spectron with MBLs and didn't find it involving then the Rowland will be only a little better. For most dynamic speakers I'd recommend the Continuum 500, but with MBLs I'm not so sure. I've never heard that combination, but Kiwi and now you report something missing with a couple of amps that I consider more alike than different.
With the Guarneri Memento and Magicos (Rowland uses Magico in his own set up) I'd expect a very happy result. I don't know the SP Tech at all.
If you can afford the cost and are willing to wait just a little, the new Vienna Acoustic The Music speakers have incredibly stunning midrange. Their proprietary 5" midrange driver covers frequencies from 100Hz to 20kHz with no crossover in that critical range. The absence of intermodulation distortion is stunning and the mids are stunning. In 2009 the line will include more choices, using that driver.
So, I'm thinking that the MBLs need something in addition to power to sound their best. As you no doubt know, they're very room critical, way more so than any other speaker that you've mentioned.
I own the Gryphon Diablo for the past 2 years, and all I can is that it is an excellent amp that Im completely satisfied with! It beats a lot of separates even more expensive ones.
Tvad, you make a good point of speaker match, however Im not impossible to convince. I have found that most stand mounts are not easy to drive. Im choosing among a couple of stand mount loudspeakers, the list includes SF Guarneri Memento, MBL 121,Magico MiniII(although a bit pricey), SP Tech Timepiece mini, maybe there are others that Im not familiar with. Kiwi writes, "Continuum amp whilst delivering amazing vocal articulation did not capture the 'body' of the vocal. There was if you like a fantastic high resolution outline to vocals but no real ‘density’ to them." I had a similar experience with my Spectron MIIISE. For the Continuum I think with all its power the hard to drive MBLs is one of the speakers you think it would be good for.
Keep in mind that Kiwi's review was with the MBLs. I think that the Continuum is best matched with dynamic speakers (like Vienna Acoustic, Sonus Fabre, Wilson, Dali, etc.) that can use the power and control of this type amp.
I don't know enough about the MBLs to say what amps make them work and what doesn't, but I've heard them sound very different in different setups.
In my system, the Continuum 500 is very musical and emotionally involving when driven by either my Playback Designs MPS-5 or my TT. Rhythm and pace are astounding. This makes me suspect that the MBL is a bad match for the Continuum. With more "normal" speakers you're not going to have issues of emotion, musicality, rhythm or pace.
I listened recently to the JRDG Continuum 500 was other than a few niggling concerns was reasonably impressed. My review was posted on the forum at www.audioenz.co.nz
Match a great amp incorrectly with great speaks and the results will be inferior. Match them well and for a reason and you're playing in the big leagues with many different combos.
Just look at the variety of outstanding systems represented on this site? Which is best sounding?
In the words of the great Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson:
Hi Perrew, as you said, these are all very good units. . . no one unit 'beats' any other one. In the end, you are the only one who can decide what is right for you, based on price, your speakers, your room, and your sonic/musical prefs. G.
The title seems to be offensive, that was not the purpose, so apologies.... Im just trying to find out experiences with the mentioned integrateds. The starting oint is to find a good integrated and build around it. One can assume that a good integrated should be able to mate "fairly well" with a fine turntable and reasonably priced speakers. The Rowland Continuum 500 seems to be a nice unit, although Im not convinced, yet, that it beats the others on the list?
Hi Mapman, I agree completely with you there not existing a 'best'. . . . there are too many system dependencies and equally valid user preferences/priorities. Concerning JRDG Continuum, there are 2 variants of the JRDG Continuum integrated. . . between the 250 and the 500, the latter may in many cases yield greater value of the 2, and sound more refined with greater authority. Reason is its use of ASP1000 module and built in PFC circuitry.
I have researched some pretty well though and would say both the Rowland and Krell qualify.
"Best" is a meaningless term without some context around it though. Best for what application?
Without even having heard it however, if you need the best high power SS integrated at reasonable cost, I would say the Class D based Rowland unit would certainly qualify and be of interest for many.
Impossible to listen to an amp without source and speakers/headphones. The question is moot and I hope this thread dies here and now. Try another question, like what's a good integrated that goes well with (insert source, speakers, cables, room size dimensions, shape and treatment). Then we can have a conversation.
Hi grant, I suspect many of us may be members of the Half Century audio/music club. . . yet, may I suggest to all and sundry we abandon the game of "ma fiddlestock's much bigger'n yourn?" [grins!]
Bill, if you have a contribution of personal findings to offer to the topic at hand, I know everyone here would welcome your opinion. E.G. what can you tell us about the performance of the Pass integrated? G.
Great idea Bill, would you host it on your site? ;-)
If you have a specific problem with my opinions, why don't you address them with a specific complaint rather than these weak little jabs. You gotta knock my head back to get my attention. Right now I have no idea as to why you have a specific annoyance with me.
BTW, plenty of people have taken my advice and thanked me. I'm only offering opinions and suggestions. Of course, I haven't owned 100+ TTs like you, but I have been a musician and audiophile longer than you. Some people think that my perspective is useful to them, so that's why I offer it, always with the suggestion that they followup by listening for themselves.
Cayin 265ai is one of the best that I have ever heard and I have heard a lot over the years at a lot of shows! Here's a review.. http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_1/cayin-265ai-integrated-amplifer-3-2004.html
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