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Guys take this off the forums and onto a private discussion, you two should sort things out with out an audience. Or if you want an audience start a new thread- that's me policing the forums :o) |
HARBETH IS COMING OUT WITH A FLOOR STANDING SPEAKER |
Well, well. Sorry to have started something here. Actually, I am most intrigued by the last post--a floorstander by Harbeth. Anyone hear it at the CES? If they can pull off a visually attractive speaker that sounds anything like the C7 (or better yet the HL5) I'd be done with this. I am certainly holding my wallet close until I find out more. I heard the Focus 888 at the Hi End Show in NYC last year and thought that was a very, very nice sounding speaker. I hate to sound finicky but I was disappointed in the high gloss finish which, to me, was quite guady. Otherwise a real contender. As for the Verity Parsifal, I heard this a few months ago at Sound by Singer and was woefully unimpressed. A true "audiophile" speaker. Great soundstage and resolution but totally unmusical. Thin and lacking in emotional qualities. As to the argument which has ensued, this seems to have gotten quite personal. As such I agree that relevant parties should move on to more elevated pursuits. Lrsky, still waiting for a link or additional info on your speakers--can you provide? |
Dodgealum...I agree with you that the high gloss burr wood finish on the Focus 888 can be a bit loud for some folks. It does come in a piano black finish, too, which is much more understated. Anyways, glad you were able to stop by our room at the NYC show...we'll be there again this year with Focus, Blue Circle, and Dodson... |
Philnyc. I agree that the piano black is better, but not by much. The way I see it is you have a fairly traditional looking column with a modern a high gloss finish--it just doesn't work (for me). Any chance of using whatever influence you have to get Focus to offer regular satin wood veneers? I will tell you that the sound in the Focus room was probably the best that I heard at the show. I just couldn't get away from the glaring finish. |
Dodgealum...I'll see what I can do. The Focus Classic Series has that kind of finish, and they did want the Signature Series to have a markedly different look. If you (or anyone else) have particular wood tones that you think would be of particular interest to you, please do let me know.
And thanks for the kind words re: our room at the show!! :-) |
Philnyc. I think a distinguished loudspeaker requires some distinctive woods. I feel like the standard maple, cherry, rosewood, etc. would be a little boring (I know, this from the guy who thinks the glossy too loud!). The euculyptus done by Harbeth and others has a really nice look, a honey oak perhaps, and what about something like the rose walnut offered by Aerial Acoustics? Just my two cents. By the way, where can I hear the Focus speakers again in the NYC metro area? Given the moniker I'm thinking Philnyc must be around here somewhere?! I'd really enjoy checking them out once more now that I have had the opportunity since the show to listen to a variety of other speakers. It would be a good opportunity to recalibrate since I remember the Focus speakers pulling me in the way others have not. Then perhaps a finish option will pop up in the future that I can live with! |
Dodgealum...I agree with you regarding the need for a distinctive finish, and yes, that's what the folks at Focus were going for with the gloss. :-D Anyways...yes, I am in the NYC area, in NJ about 10 minutes north of the GWB (I'm a home-based dealer, and I used to be in NYC - thus the "PhilNYC" ID - but family matters required a move to the 'burbs...). Shoot me an email at phil@sonicspirits.com if you want to set up an appointment to come out. If you're in the city and need transportation, I can probably help with that too (although not in today's snowstorm! :-) |
Just for the record - I don't understand how you could find the Parsifal unmusical Dodgealum - unless it was not run in when its upper mids are pinched and recessed. I find my Fidelios quite un-hifi, much less so than my Merlin VSMs or my Thiel 2.4s - much more like my friends Sonus Faber Guarnieris than any other speaker I have had. But I don't doubt that is what you heard. |
Dodgealum...so it turns out that Focus *can* make the FS-888 (or any other Signature Series speaker) in a satin wood finish (instead of the gloss). It does take a longer lead-time (2-3 months), but it does not cost any extra. Note that the gloss finish does act as a cabinet damper, so the satin wood finish will sound a little softer than ones with the gloss finish. However, according to the folks at Focus, some people actually prefer the sound!
Most readily available for wood choices are the birds-eye maple and rosewood finishes that they make for the Focus Classic Series (see www.focusaudio.com to see what those look like). |
Lrsky is now registered as a commercial user.
Again, my excitement in mentioning LSA was both premature, AND uncalled for, since I was not yet commercial.
Sorry for any misrepresentation on my part.
As to the best speaker under 10K one issue haunting the audio industry today, is the lack of products under 10K which are really worthy--hence the consumer flight to the used marketplace. They are seeking quality, but unable (perhaps unwilling) to pay the prices of some products.
One thing I taught sales people in my seminars which is on point here, is the formula for purchasing, which, in a fit of maybe Cabernet I came up with. Which is: M+M@VP=S, which when translated means, "money plus motivation at the moment of value perception equals a sale. It seems that more and more, the flight to used gear shows that more people feel that value is gained in the used market.
After working the sales floor of my own store for 11 years, then traveling the country, I saw many people swallow hard at the pricing of some of the loudspeakers.
At least places like Audiogon allow for the resale, at a bargain price of loudspeakers, so the first owner can upgrade, and the second owner can buy 'better' perceived product.
IMHO |
It would be interesting, perhaps astounding, to know a mfrs'. costs of drivers, x'overs and cabinets for some respected high end speakers in the, say, $20-40K/pair range. I realize there's more than component costs involved.
Which mfrs. have the highest markup from factory to distributor? |
Probably Bose, as a percentage to gross retail versus gross cost of goods.
They were using, what had to be one of the least expensive drivers around in the 901's--and the were made in Kentucky.
The drivers, I was told, cost them about $3.00 each. Don't get me wrong, profit is not a dirty word, but it is a sad commentary that if you asked 100 typical people to name a speaker company that is high quality, Bose always comes up.
Just today, my attorney asked me if my speaker is "I better than Bose?" I laughed. |
That profit is applied to the advertising budget making that product's perceived value to be much greater than the total sum of all its parts..After all the end user bought the product based on perception often conceived by someone else.The end user's purhcase is fuel for the next product cycle.And so life goes on..Tom |
Good thought Tom, the mystique however misplaced, is perpetuated by the marketing.
"Is it better than Bose.?" I could have vomited, but he was completely serious.
How can anyone look at their particle board cabinets and pseudo zoomy looks and not see through that "Captain Midnight" technology.
This, is the premise, and I am not exaggerating, of the Bose 901.
Since 89% of all sound we hear (presumably musical) is reflected, their design pointed 9 of the 10 drivers in the 901, away from the listener. Now, I don't think that one has to be an MIT Grad to figure out that we have just INCREASED the amount of reflected sound, by making what should be direct sound, reflected, by doing this.
This is meathead physics, and Amar Bose has made this into a Billion dollar company. Oh well, as Adolph Hitler said, (paraphrasing as my memory, as well as other body issues has become shorter these days) "The bigger the lie, the easier it is to pass off."
If only someone with Bose's resources would actually pursue audio perfection. It actually staggers my mind that I can, in my very first attempt, build a speaker better than almost everyone out there. Not a commercial, just disgusted. |
go for the proac d38, it is great and sounds much more expensive than 8000. |
Thanks, Classicaudio. I am interested in the D38. I heard the 3.8 once and liked it very much. How does the new series D38 compare? There hasen't really been much out there about the new series. |
I hope you have the opportunity to audition the Ruark Solstice before making a decision. All I have to say about them is that they they sound like music. Unfortunately they're out of production because the components became too expensive for the price point they were selling at. I'm very happy with my Ruark Equinox, ($4K retail) which was the model below the Solstice. I would take them over a shrill, beamy sound of a B&W or the hi-fi sound of a Wilson Watt (at 20X the cost) any day. |
