Best Floorstander Under 10K?

I hope you have the opportunity to audition the Ruark Solstice before making a decision. All I have to say about them is that they they sound like music. Unfortunately they're out of production because the components became too expensive for the price point they were selling at. I'm very happy with my Ruark Equinox, ($4K retail) which was the model below the Solstice. I would take them over a shrill, beamy sound of a B&W or the hi-fi sound of a Wilson Watt (at 20X the cost) any day.

Thanks, Classicaudio. I am interested in the D38. I heard the 3.8 once and liked it very much. How does the new series D38 compare? There hasen't really been much out there about the new series.

go for the proac d38, it is great and sounds much more expensive than 8000.

Good thought Tom, the mystique however misplaced, is perpetuated by the marketing.
"Is it better than Bose.?" I could have vomited, but he was completely serious.
How can anyone look at their particle board cabinets and pseudo zoomy looks and not see through that "Captain Midnight" technology.
This, is the premise, and I am not exaggerating, of the Bose 901.
Since 89% of all sound we hear (presumably musical) is reflected, their design pointed 9 of the 10 drivers in the 901, away from the listener. Now, I don't think that one has to be an MIT Grad to figure out that we have just INCREASED the amount of reflected sound, by making what should be direct sound, reflected, by doing this.
This is meathead physics, and Amar Bose has made this into a Billion dollar company. Oh well, as Adolph Hitler said, (paraphrasing as my memory, as well as other body issues has become shorter these days) "The bigger the lie, the easier it is to pass off."
If only someone with Bose's resources would actually pursue audio perfection. It actually staggers my mind that I can, in my very first attempt, build a speaker better than almost everyone out there. Not a commercial, just disgusted.

That profit is applied to the advertising budget making that product's perceived value to be much greater than the total sum of all its parts..After all the end user bought the product based on perception often conceived by someone else.The end user's purhcase is fuel for the next product cycle.And so life goes on..Tom

Probably Bose, as a percentage to gross retail versus gross cost of goods.
They were using, what had to be one of the least expensive drivers around in the 901's--and the were made in Kentucky.
The drivers, I was told, cost them about $3.00 each. Don't get me wrong, profit is not a dirty word, but it is a sad commentary that if you asked 100 typical people to name a speaker company that is high quality, Bose always comes up.
Just today, my attorney asked me if my speaker is "I better than Bose?" I laughed.

It would be interesting, perhaps astounding, to know a mfrs'. costs of drivers, x'overs and cabinets for some respected high end speakers in the, say, $20-40K/pair range. I realize there's more than component costs involved.

Which mfrs. have the highest markup from factory to distributor?

Lrsky is now registered as a commercial user.
Again, my excitement in mentioning LSA was both premature, AND uncalled for, since I was not yet commercial.
Sorry for any misrepresentation on my part.

As to the best speaker under 10K one issue haunting the audio industry today, is the lack of products under 10K which are really worthy--hence the consumer flight to the used marketplace. They are seeking quality, but unable (perhaps unwilling) to pay the prices of some products.
One thing I taught sales people in my seminars which is on point here, is the formula for purchasing, which, in a fit of maybe Cabernet I came up with. Which is: M+M@VP=S, which when translated means, "money plus motivation at the moment of value perception equals a sale. It seems that more and more, the flight to used gear shows that more people feel that value is gained in the used market.
After working the sales floor of my own store for 11 years, then traveling the country, I saw many people swallow hard at the pricing of some of the loudspeakers.
At least places like Audiogon allow for the resale, at a bargain price of loudspeakers, so the first owner can upgrade, and the second owner can buy 'better' perceived product.
IMHO

Dodgealum...so it turns out that Focus *can* make the FS-888 (or any other Signature Series speaker) in a satin wood finish (instead of the gloss). It does take a longer lead-time (2-3 months), but it does not cost any extra. Note that the gloss finish does act as a cabinet damper, so the satin wood finish will sound a little softer than ones with the gloss finish. However, according to the folks at Focus, some people actually prefer the sound!

Most readily available for wood choices are the birds-eye maple and rosewood finishes that they make for the Focus Classic Series (see www.focusaudio.com to see what those look like).

Just for the record - I don't understand how you could find the Parsifal unmusical Dodgealum - unless it was not run in when its upper mids are pinched and recessed. I find my Fidelios quite un-hifi, much less so than my Merlin VSMs or my Thiel 2.4s - much more like my friends Sonus Faber Guarnieris than any other speaker I have had. But I don't doubt that is what you heard.

Dodgealum...I agree with you regarding the need for a distinctive finish, and yes, that's what the folks at Focus were going for with the gloss. :-D Anyways...yes, I am in the NYC area, in NJ about 10 minutes north of the GWB (I'm a home-based dealer, and I used to be in NYC - thus the "PhilNYC" ID - but family matters required a move to the 'burbs...). Shoot me an email at phil@sonicspirits.com if you want to set up an appointment to come out. If you're in the city and need transportation, I can probably help with that too (although not in today's snowstorm! :-)

Philnyc. I think a distinguished loudspeaker requires some distinctive woods. I feel like the standard maple, cherry, rosewood, etc. would be a little boring (I know, this from the guy who thinks the glossy too loud!). The euculyptus done by Harbeth and others has a really nice look, a honey oak perhaps, and what about something like the rose walnut offered by Aerial Acoustics? Just my two cents. By the way, where can I hear the Focus speakers again in the NYC metro area? Given the moniker I'm thinking Philnyc must be around here somewhere?! I'd really enjoy checking them out once more now that I have had the opportunity since the show to listen to a variety of other speakers. It would be a good opportunity to recalibrate since I remember the Focus speakers pulling me in the way others have not. Then perhaps a finish option will pop up in the future that I can live with!

Dodgealum...I'll see what I can do. The Focus Classic Series has that kind of finish, and they did want the Signature Series to have a markedly different look. If you (or anyone else) have particular wood tones that you think would be of particular interest to you, please do let me know.

And thanks for the kind words re: our room at the show!! :-)

Philnyc. I agree that the piano black is better, but not by much. The way I see it is you have a fairly traditional looking column with a modern a high gloss finish--it just doesn't work (for me). Any chance of using whatever influence you have to get Focus to offer regular satin wood veneers? I will tell you that the sound in the Focus room was probably the best that I heard at the show. I just couldn't get away from the glaring finish.

Dodgealum...I agree with you that the high gloss burr wood finish on the Focus 888 can be a bit loud for some folks. It does come in a piano black finish, too, which is much more understated. Anyways, glad you were able to stop by our room at the NYC show...we'll be there again this year with Focus, Blue Circle, and Dodson...

Well, well. Sorry to have started something here. Actually, I am most intrigued by the last post--a floorstander by Harbeth. Anyone hear it at the CES? If they can pull off a visually attractive speaker that sounds anything like the C7 (or better yet the HL5) I'd be done with this. I am certainly holding my wallet close until I find out more. I heard the Focus 888 at the Hi End Show in NYC last year and thought that was a very, very nice sounding speaker. I hate to sound finicky but I was disappointed in the high gloss finish which, to me, was quite guady. Otherwise a real contender. As for the Verity Parsifal, I heard this a few months ago at Sound by Singer and was woefully unimpressed. A true "audiophile" speaker. Great soundstage and resolution but totally unmusical. Thin and lacking in emotional qualities. As to the argument which has ensued, this seems to have gotten quite personal. As such I agree that relevant parties should move on to more elevated pursuits. Lrsky, still waiting for a link or additional info on your speakers--can you provide?

HARBETH IS COMING OUT WITH A FLOOR STANDING SPEAKER

Guys take this off the forums and onto a private discussion, you two should sort things out with out an audience. Or if you want an audience start a new thread- that's me policing the forums :o)

President not Professor

Lrsky/whatever,
I have ALWAYS tried to indicate my affiliations, as if my moniker isn't clear enough to indicate I'm a dealer. You are only guessing, rather badly, as to my motives for posting.

Take a look at some of your own posts, including the ones in this thread (need some links?). Who's being opportunistic?

As to your credentials, what is "Professor Emeritus" supposed to mean? Do you have a Ph.D. and teach at a university?

Sorry to hear about your SL speakers, as most folks don't have problems. But then you chose to air your grievances, despite their concerted efforts.

Dude,(least you forget that this is 2005, please) Larry will do just fine.
"In my experience and opinion full range dipoles do it best."
That was your answer to, "Which speaker renders piano best."
If I am not mistaken, YOU are a Sound Labs dealer, and I am sure that anyone who is a thinking person, finds this to be completely (if not your honest opinion, in fairness) self serving to your cause. To put the fine point that it was no doubt truthful on your part is a waste of time, so was I.
You only haunt this site to hawk your wares, so please don't be duplicitious.
If you read 99.999999999% of all my posts they are benevolent and time consuming answers to people wanting honest answers to questions, (as was my own self serving mention of LSA).
I have spent several hours waxing poetic over the DK MK II for no reason other than to "pass it on".
Give us all a break and quit the 'police' routine here.
How pious of a registered 'commercial' user, who takes every opportunity, however subtle, to further his cause. You are only here for financial gain, and anything thought to the contrary is naiive.
We have ALWAYS gotten along. Let this go, in the name of common sense.
I wish you well, and if you look back, I apologized three times for having 'offended' anyone.
Following your, "I think dipoles, (Sound Labs by any other name, do it best"...) is very close to 'selling something'.
At least I was completely open about my answer.
My credentials as former Vice President of Sales and Marketing International for THIEL Audio, and President Emeritus for Von Schweikert Audio, give me perspective, and credibility among those who follow these writs. Plus, I spend hours weekly answering questions privately, (for no gain) from Audiogon followers who seek my advice because of my credentials, none of which anyone sees.
PLEASE let it go as a minor, unimportant gaffe, and fit of oportunity on my part, and zeal over my new babies.
Good luck on selling Sound Labs... though to be 'honest' mine tragically broke after only five months of normal, gentle use...propelling me into what will undoubtedly be a non refundable $500. freight nightmare, plus weeks of down time. I hope everyone else has better luck with $18,000.00 speakers than I did. Maybe another reason why a 'free', virtually no time involved fix for a dynamic speaker suits me better, however wonderful the Sound Labs may sound, this is gut wrenching.
Good listening to everyone...and please Dude, (oops, Brian)let this go, it's not that important, and you couldn't possibly THAT offended, given YOUR opportunistic bent here.

Lrsky,
Allow me to introduce you to the Moderation Guidelines, linked from the lower right corner of the Main Forums menu:

What we will decline:
We hope to decline very few submissions, but we refuse to post statements that take away from the usefulness of these forums. Here are some examples of the types of posts that will be rejected most of the time:

* Questions that you can answer for yourself by searching the previous answers, or by following a known web link, or by reading the manual.
* Questions that only you can answer, such as "Will that subwoofer have enough bass for me?"
* Questions with no answer, such as "Is this amp any good?"
* Posts that do not give sufficient information about your system, your experience, or your tastes.
* Posts that are off-topic or casual bantering.
* Posts that are obviously trying to sell something.
...

Check out that last one above, it's a doozy.

Perhaps you haven't read the posting rules, or at least you don't agree with them. Common sense should tell you it isn't kosher to self promote, but then maybe I'm jaded from being in the trenches as an ordinary joe consumer for thirty years before throwing my hat in the ring. If I want a sales pitch I'll watch late night TV infomercials. Dude, this thing is supposed to be fun.

Sorry to all for venting and sounding like some kind of creepy net cop, but it had to be said.

ACI Jaguar LFM's

PSB Stratus Gold i's at $2700 will give a lot of stuff under 10k a very hard run for the money. They need quality electronics and sources and lot's of juice.

Since some folks are promoting their own wares, I'll throw in my favorite...the Focus Audio FS-888. My disclaimer is that I'm a Focus Audio dealer, but I only sell gear that I own for myself, and this is my favorite speaker under $10K. They do like a lot of power, and they certainly benefit from a larger room, but when set up properly they are spectacular...

Here's a review by Wes Philips:

http://www.onhifi.com/product/focusaudio_fs888.htm

At the risk of sounding cynical, you don't know Essential personally, do you Pmi guy...or do you?
All I did was HONESTLY answer an (albiet self serving question) honestly.
I think Essential is within his rights to point out commercial versus private, but Audiogon polices their site pretty well; I am sure that they would slap me back if I weren't a long time sincere contributor.
Again, sorry if anyone was hurt by this revelation of my new design.
Larry R. Staples
LSA Group
Founder/Designer

Essentialaudio- Thanks for the heads-up on the LSA speakers. All posters should disclose their conflicts of interest, whether potential or real.

I have both the Merlin VSM and the Verity Fidelio. Both seem to me to fit the bill of what you are after. I might be alone in this, but I slightly prefer the Fidelio. Set up right, these speakers can sound utterly gorgeous. The Merlin is less laid back and more impressive/spectacular, so I guess it is a matter of how you like your music presented.

Personally, I have no problem with anyone posting to promote their own product, provided there is disclosure. In fact, I'm quite interested in hearing about products that are outside the mainstream as they may represent a better value than those that are more well known (and hyped). Larry, please send me some further information and photos.

Larry, got any pictures of your speakers?

I've been around this and other forums for quite a few years. I haven't seen the people you mentioned post, but folks such as Bobby Palkovic respond to questions in an informational, professional manner. For example, if Bobby were to come on and post a promotional piece about something new that he has he would likely incur the wrath of others and deservedly so. By the way, I don't sell Bobby's speakers, so there is no conflict of interests.

The question was "best floorstander under 10K, not who builds it, so I am thinking that anyone can speak up who wishes to do so.
Rich Vandersteen, Jim Thiel, Gayle Sanders et. al. have similar thoughts probably, and are presumably free to indulge themselves.
I will soon, as time approaches, register as a commercial poster, as you are Essentialaudio...

Lrsky, correct me if I'm wrong, but LSA is Larry Staples Audio and you are using this forum to promote your own product.

I heard the LSA 2's a few times.Yes they were easy to go back and listen to each and every time..They were also easy to discern differences when changing electronics or component supports or for that matter power cords. Fit and finish visually spoke of a 10k pair of speakers.Soundstage was wide detailed and fleshed out, imaging was visual. These speakers easliy compete with the large boastfull widely advertised big boy speakers as well as the more serious monitor types..The LSA speakers are musical and are of great value..Next step is to hear them with my own rig in my own room..Then I may say...without any reservation Larry you nailed IT...Tom

P.S. I also like the Sophia. However the styling is too modern.

Once again, thanks for all your help. Where can I get more info about the Irsky LSA Model 2? Also, Rsquared, thanks for the heads up on the Curves--I hadn't seen any reviews. I'll also look into the new Vandy's. The Model 5's really are quite large (wide at the bottom and deep) I think the Proacs cut a much less noticable presence. Please keep your suggestions coming.

It's hard to know what to say about lrsky's speakers. You won't believe how good an $1800 speaker can be until you hear it. It is an absolute imaging champ, and it has tons of textures and a life like presentation that is difficult to imagine. The speaker has great clarity and detail with no harshness, and it will blow away products that cost several times it's price. I'm on the list to order 2 pair when they go in production, they really are that good!

Make that the B&W 801's sorry for the typo.

LSA Model 2. Soon available nationally.
Speak up theaudiotweak, and 84. Tell 'em what to expect for $1800. per pair in real Rosewood finish. The time has come to let the cat out of the bag.
(Cats hate bags, so I am told.) HA!
The LSA's are better than the B7W 801's for $11K, and that's a start. You guys out there?

Don't bother with the WB Curves... If you're going to get Wilson Benesch's, you have to get at least the ACT's.

Which you should be able to get for about $10K from a dealer if you really push. ($12K retail)

The Curves just do not have enough bass.

My two cents.

I like the Wilson Sophia in that price range.

Dodgealum, if the Vandy Model 5s are too big, then wouldn't the Response 3.8s or D38s be also?

Re WB Curves: from, excuse the source, HiFi Choice: "However, the Curve is also leaner than the ACT through the broad midband, 150-600Hz, so that a 700Hz-1kHz peak - visible on both - stands out as rather more isolated and obvious. The result is clearly audible as a rather less neutral balance overall, the Curve sounding thinner with less harmonic richness, especially with wideband orchestral material. Speech shows a similar character, with clarity and articulation, and lots of explicit detail, but also some leanness and lack of 'chest' on male voices in particular." Not a great endorsement of a $7,300 speaker.

Silverline Audio Sonata III in Rosewood finish

You may want to visit your local Vandersteen dealer again. In addition to the Model 5s he will have Quatros this summer. They are essentially the head unit of a Model 3 with a built in 2WQ sub on either side (this is a great simplification for the sake of brevity). If you like the Model 5 this will be a slightly smaller speaker in some respects.

Still, it's too bad the 5 is too big for you. I think it takes up about the same floor space as any other high quality speaker.

Good luck!

Just for reference, if you want to hear the Tylers (very understandable), you may want to click on the Demo link in the top left corner of the Tyler web page... Ty now has a list of owners that have volunteered to let you and others hear their speakers in their own homes for "real world" trial (I plan to join that demo list soon).

Of course Ty also has a 3 week home audition period, but you would be out the 2-way postage (and that can run $100-200 each way for many of his larger speakers).

Just for reference though, Ty definitely does not just plop the drivers into any old cabinet and call it a new model... He is actually a master speaker builder as far as I am concerned. If you seek out an audition, I think you will quickly see that too.

Good luck with your auditions...

---Dave

Merlin VSM range.....MM or MX,depending on amplification.

Thanks to everyone and keep the suggestions coming! I've researched a few of the lesser known brands and am happy to have widened my horizons. To those that suggest I keep the Harbeths--I hear you. If it were not for their unattractive appearance and the newly decorated living area, I would be set for life with the Compact 7's. A truly superb speaker, particularly for the money. Vandy 5's are nice, I've heard them and like them a lot. Just too big for the space. To be honest, I'm a little fearful of the Tyler speakers--seems like he just pops the same drivers in different size boxes. Without being able to hear them I'm not comfortable going there. The Krell Resolution seems interesting. I'll try to find those. What about these which no one has mentioned--any thoughts:

Proac D38
Aerial Acoustics 7B
Ruark Solstice
Wilson Benesch Curves

I've heard all but the Curves and D38 (but did hear the old 3.8). Any opinions on these as possible options given my equipment and love of the Harbeth sound?

Tyler Acoustics Woodmeres. While 6 feet tall, they are only 18 inches wide and deep. Being front ported, I've been able to place mine quite close to the front wall. Very unobtrusive physically though the looks always draw the attention of visitors. The pictures don't do justice. Oh, the sound? Very natural with either solid state or tubes. The dual 10 inch Seas woofers give the most realistic rendering of bass notes I've ever heard.

Good luck, whatever you choose.

jb

Dodgealum, not knowing what music genres or part(s) of the audio spectrum you favor, I suggest the following two current models for MUSICALITY, accuracy, balance and long-term enjoyment with your ARC system:

"Equation 25" (www.mutine.com/pages/equation25en.html)

"Stonehenge" (www.fabaudio.com/Stonehenge.htm)

Equations are beautifully finished and provide more apparent but not boosted bass and are more forgiving; however, Stonehenges have a wonderful presence and reproduce anything, bass included, that's on the recording.

Stonehenges are very efficient and mate well with quality SS and, especially, tube gear. Since you're a vinyl fan, you'll hear things on your LPs you didn't know were there.

Both speakers' cabinets are very well made, contain top quality drivers, wire and crossovers and are great values.

Good luck!

I don't want to sound like a broken record here but.....The Tyler Linbrook System really is an outstanding speaker. I have the front ported one piece speaker. I've had B&W Matrix 801 S3, Von Schweikert vr4 jr, and JM Labs Electra 926, in my room at one time or another. The Linbrooks win. I had a hard time believing that these were going to be the speaker to stop me from looking - but after they broke in - I was sold. Mid's and high's are beautiful and well balanced. Bass is tight AND deep. The bass was my biggest concern following the 801's. I didn't think there was enough slam or weight, but now after break in, I feel as though I'm missing nothing, as far as bass is concerned. Plus the sound stage is huge, and the speakers are easy to place, in the room, as well. Plus they do look beautiful. In case you can't tell, I really like 'em. :-) Great speaker for twice the money, and Ty is one of the best Agon dealer's I've dealt with.