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Best bass in Earth! Bass that just smells right...

Bass ,room acoustics, attack, delay, headroom, pressurization, and integration with the main speakers. So this has been my quest. Perfect bass that enhances everything yet detracts from nothing...

Over the 25 plus years as a hobbyist (mostly Audiophile/Music lover) yet also a mechanical engineer and Virgo perfection is a must. Once I heard the swarm/distributed bass array done right I was sold. I probably have spent 10s of thousand over the years buying and selling just bass/subwoofers and every gizmo to aid in this process.

I finally find myself with 26 10 inch woofers (only using 20 at the moment)  from four Kinergetics sw 800's in a small 20 x 16 room. 4 towers with 5 10 inch Seas each and 2 of the smaller subs with 3 10 inch woofers each. They are all in great condition given age the drivers are tight and work perfectly. Of all the money I have spent in home audio this has been my most difficult challenge to achieve perfection. I love Stats and Maggies but also like AC/DC and other music that the plannars are not the best at. Dyna Audio and Dunlavy speakers are the fastest coned sealed speakers (I am sure there are a million speakers out there that equal or better them not here to debate speakers) . I personally have always preferred the sound of FAST sealed cone speakers.

Back to the bottom foundation which I feel all speakers need regardless of price and woofer size. Trying to get four Sub woofers correct in a room is not easy. I probably have 200 hours into these SW 800's and now trying different AMPs and configurations. Im close but not there Id give it 88-91 percent but that last 10 percent is the magic.

So for they peeps out there getting into this can of worms. First unless your a sadomasochist like me it's probably best to buy a system like the Audio Kinesis or Debra system. It's just guaranteed results. Second this is for music not HT there is a difference. Although I had the HSU ULS 15's sealed 2 of em and they are darn good, Revel b 15' A's, Muse Model 18's along with several others. These SW 800's are more like actual speakers that require a lot of work to get right. They also use a funky forward distortion feedback Compusound circuitry (Im not an EE but from what little I was able to read it sounds like a forward servo design in their BSC cross overs) tons of pros and cons to the design but the fact they were meant to mate with the original Martin Logan full panel CLS says volumes when it comes to transparency. Although I dont use the high pass just the low pass.

So if you are into real music and enjoy room pressurization with out destroying (actually increasing, presence, timing, and smell of the music) multiple subwoofers are a mandatory.

I am writing this post for all the peeps getting into real bass so you dont make all the mistakes I have made. We all know how expensive mistakes are that is and why we are members of Agon and other groups. I do want to Thank a couple of members on here for their help and wisdom. I wont name them they know who they are. And special Thank you and Happy New Year to the moderators and founders of Agon for giving all of us a place to gain view points, experiences, and wisdom!

-Allgood
128x128haywood310
erik_squires
16,039 posts
 
I finally find myself with 26 10 inch woofers (only using 20 at the moment) from four Kinergetics sw 800's in a small 20 x 16 room. 4 towers with 5 10
inch Seas each and 2 of the smaller subs with 3 10 inch woofers each


I dunno, maybe, 1-2 subs, and bass traps with appropriate EQ  is sounding pretty good right about now. :)

audioman58's avatar
audioman58
4,129 posts
 
My friend has 4-SVS ultra 16inch subs. his den on movies or music it is devastating .his living room  was designed for home theatre the
literal punch in the stomach ,the pressure wave literally attacks the senses and the subsonic effect from a giant Hammond pipe organ rumbles your guts and the room at under 20 hz and then Japanese 8 ft drums is like the drums heads are in the room .the 1812 overture was a liberal Giant cannon Explosion which was disorienting at over 105 DB hitting you from 360 degrees in the dark was equal to a artillery shell in the service.4x16 inch drivers and 1,000s of Watts on hand .i have yet to see this equaled Anywhere.
cal18
45 posts
 
Just build a bomb shelter (no really, we’ll probably need one in the immediate future) but set a room up with as much soundproofing/dampening and then start dropping subs IMO. Think about how dampening improves sound in a car. 
brotw
103 posts
 
As I understand it, an array of subs would be very effective at smoothing out the bass response of the room over a wider sweet spot. What about spatial cues from bass frequencies? What frequency does bass directionality kick in, 50hz? In order to reproduce spatial cues at bass frequencies, don't you need dual subs sitting next to the mains? Any more subs or in any other location other then dual subs next to the mains would destroy that I'm thinking. Perhaps the smoother, more tonally accurate response from 4 or more subs is the better route.
audiokinesis
2,735 posts
 
@brotw posted: " As I understand it, an array of subs would be very effective at smoothing out the bass response of the room over a wider sweet spot. What about spatial cues from bass frequencies? "

The good news is, you can have both.

My understanding is that true stereo below 80 Hz is actually quite rare, but if you want the ability to reproduce it, then (assuming four subs total) send the left channel signal to the two subs located towards the left-hand side of the room, and the right channel signal to the two subs located towards the right-hand side of the room.

If you’d like to synthesize the sort of immersive ambience we might get from true stereo bass, try this: Set the two subs on the left-hand side of the room both 90 degrees apart in phase from the two subs on the right-hand side of the room. So for instance if the two left-hand subs have the phase control set at 30 degrees, the two right-hand subs would have the phase control set at 120 degrees. Credit to David Griesinger (inventor of the Lexicon processor) for this idea; his original suggestion was to use two subs, located along the side walls to the left and right of the listening area. That 90 degrees phase difference isn’t necessarily carved in stone either - you can go beyond 90 degrees, at the expense of increased cancellation at the very bottom end (which in some cases may be desirable).

Duke
(disclaimer, in case the connection isn’t obvious: I make the Swarm)
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