I hear one drawback of Psvane 845T MkII though. The imiges are slightly less "dense", slightly less palpable when compared to 845B. I wonder what WE845 is like? I've read it has even more detail, more "air" but.. does it trade some image density, palpability for airiness? Where would you place it? |
According to Psvane Audio, Psvane WE211 tube can replace all current 211 tubes in high end audio application, BUT I have never seen any published specifications to confirm this claim. |
Somebody knows about the dissipation rate of WE211 ¿? |
I just ordered a pair of WE 845's. Not sure when they will arrive, but I'll give an update in this thread once I've had a chance to listen to them carefully.
I've been using a pair of Shuguang Type *A* tubes for the last several weeks after one of my Type *B* tubes died. Not really digging the A's that much...I sense a *whitish* character to the sound. It's not bad or obvious, just not quite as engaging for me. It's a perfectly fine backup tube, but I'm hoping that the WE 845 is a knockout performer. |
Yes, following your comments I'll go for a air of WE211. About the Elrog ones, I'll try to get at least one new valve for replacement. I have a pair of ER-211 hungry for Bias specially one of them already out of parameters. |
Jkuc wait until you hear the Psvane WE845 tubes. |
Well I have a pair of Elrog ER-211 for 997 hours use in 10 months. Superb sound in those last hours but now they are dying out of Bias. A pair of them costs as much as many good valve amps .. |
Ive been using Mastersound 845 for three years, power tubes Shuguang 845B. I lost two of them in that period, one after 6 months and another one after two years (was plying 1200-1300 hours a year). Recently I've replaced 845B tubes with Psvane 845T mkII. The difference between 845B and Psvane 845T is obvious and instantly audible.
The thirst thing you hear Psvane is a cleaner sounding tube, less noise.
Psvane 845T MkII has much better HF extension and is a better resolving tube. You get better detail across the whole frequency spectrum. There is more low level detail, soundstage has more air, more ambience info. Images are more precisely drawn within the soundstage, localization of instruments more stable. 845B images are a bit vague in comparison. Overall Psvane 845T has better clarity, better transparency and slightly improved dynamics. |
I had a chance now to compare the WE845 Psvane to the original NOS RCA 845 tubes from the early 50's. I like the sound of the RCA tubes very much. The sound of the RCA's are very open and transparent but a little laid back compared to the WE845. The WE845 are a little more upfront and lively in comparison. |
Have to agree with Jeff. Righrt out of the box the superior sound of the Psvane 845 was easily apparent. It`s very natural and sounds superb in his Absolare Passion amplifier.The previous Shuguangs he had weren`t bad at all(in fact they were good sounding to me). The Psvane is a higher level of sonic performance.
Charles, |
I don't have the B's, but I do have the Treasure series. This Psvane tube is a brand new design and is based on the original RCA tubes of the 50's. I may be one of the first to get these. All I can say is they are fabulous, especially in the Absolare. |
Jeff - how does the Psvane compare to the trusty Shuguang "B" 845? Do you know if it is a direct replacement for the standard B tube from Shuguang?
And I'm totally envious of your Absolare 845!! I bet they are terrific! |
Jeff....I looked at your system,your room and WOW.
Now an Absolare 845.
Too bad your not in the New York metro area.I'd be your new best friend.
Enjoy |
Right out of the box the Psvane WE845 tubes kill the broken in Shuguang Treasure Series 845. The Psvanes are much more natural and organic sounding. The slight glassiness or brightness in the upper mids are gone. There is no negatives to these Psvane tubes right out of the box and they will obviously get better with burn in. I am in heaven. I bought these tubes direct form China. |
Jwm....looking forward to your thoughts.
Keep us informed
Where do you buy Shuguang or Psvane these days. |
I just received my Psvane WE845 today. I will compare to the Shuguang Nature Series 845. A friend has original RCA 845 that I will be able to hear as well. |
Bayreuth, frankly no. It's been too long. I used a couple 845s between the B and the Psvane T, including metal types. I can only say that to me the Psvane 845T was the ultimate, in my system. Made the metal types sound "metallic," as I've noted above :-) |
Thanks for the reply Dopogue.
Can you describe any sound differences or advantages of the Psvane T compared to Shuguang 845B? |
I still love the sound of my Psvane 845T tubes after approx. 2 years. One of the original pair died after 12 months and I replaced it with a single. No further problems. I should note, though, that this is the only 845 tube I have ever had fail (my 845 monoblocks are nearly 10 years old). |
Does anyone have more comments on their experience with Psvane 845-T or the newer 845-TII tubes from Psvane? Any comments on build quality, sound, reliability? Thanks. |
Just received this from a customer regarding KR Audio 845.
Hugh,
The tubes are excellent. They sounded good right out of the box, and have improved over the thirty hours or so that I have played them.
Very good high end resolution, and great clarity from top to bottom. My room is fairly damped and the higher resolution is very welcome.
It has been the kind of upgrade where I want to go through all my records and hear the new sounds that the tubes bring out.
In my opinion, in my room, the KRs are a substantial improvement over the very good 845Bs.
Headed your way tomorrow, my mom lives in Riverside, and I get down there to see her every month or so.
Thanks again for the tubes.
Regards
Scott |
Well,
According to Melody, the Shuguang 845-T's quality is not good so they suggest we try Psvane's instead.
Nevertheless, we are happy with Shuguang 845B so we'll just stick with those. |
Nhocti, could you comment on Shuguang 845-T Natural Sound? Thanks! |
Has anybody listened to the new Psvane 845 T Mark II Treasure? They claim it is better build quality and more musical, I just know it is more expensive. I have not see any reviews. Thanks. |
I got to get myself some of those Shuguang 845-T Natural Sound tubes to try out.
Thanks for the info. |
The nature series is better than the Elrog in what way. |
Yes, the new Nature Series is the standard now. It followed up my Psvane 845-T MK-I and my Elrog ER845! It is the best 845 I listened to, with a big margin. |
I am curious about the Shuguang Natural Sound 845 series as well. Has anyone heard it? |
has anyone heard the new Shuguang Natural Sound 845-T series? |
Thanks for that. I suppose my experience was much the same but they are off again as I purchased a matched pair of Psvane Hi-Fi series 845's for my monoblocks. These have done about 50 hours now and are excellent tubes. Bottom end is tighter and hi end is clearer and more dynamic. The sound stage is clearer with more low level detail and with very good depth. It was immediately obvious that they were better tubes from the moment I turned the amps on. I suppose it could be said that they should sound better that a couple of tubes that had already done 2000hrs but I never remember the 845B tubes sounding as good. |
DavidSailor, I use Pearl tube coolers on my 845 SET monoblocks.
I noticed that the upper midrange / lower treble is smoother with the coolers.
Also, plate temperature has dropped 20 degrees Celsius ( I use a Fluke infrared temperature meter), so I expect the tubes to last much longer.
I find it a worthwhile investment, given the current prices of NOS 845 tubes. |
Is this the current Shuguang 845B - it has a mica spacer at the top and the aluminum base:
http://audiocrast.com/Shuguang-845B.html
Other pictures of the 845B have a copper (?) base and no mica space, but otherwise have the graphite plate and the stronger supports than the standard Shuguang 845. |
Has anyone used Pearl Tube Coolers on their 845's? I am using them to hopefully extend their life and possibly reduce the small amount of microphonics. At first I thought the coolers dampened the HF end a bit but after trying the 845B's with and without several times I am now quite happy to leave them on. I suppose the coolers have been on for about 4 months in total and the amps are two years old so I guess the tubes were doing well anyway. There is no sign of the plate current's dropping off. The amps have plate current meters. The amps are on for 4-6 hours every day. |
Saika2, the 845 tubes sold by chinesetubes.com are the original metal plate 845C with wings. The 845C has a lower dissipation rating than the RCA 845 standard; therefore, the majority of 845 amplifiers will run these tubes VERY hard. Getting 2 years from your previous pair is doing really well.
A agree with Dopouge, try a pair of Psvane 845, they are among the best current production 845. |
I used the metal plate Shuguangs for a couple years and find the Pavanes (Psvanes) much more to my liking. More open and dynamic and less (for lack of a better word) "metallic." I did enjoy the metal plate tubes for quite a while, though. |
I bought my Belcanto seti 40 with 3 pairs of Shuguang 845's- regular aluminum base graphite electrode, type B's, and a pair of metal plates.
The aluminum ones were noisy within an hour or so of use, the B's were "OK", and the metal plates were ethereal! Unfortunately the metal plates didn't last forever, the actual metal electrode plates overheated, flared and came loose with time, they did last for 2 yrs though. I am currently using B's, but have ordered 2 pairs of metal plate 845's from "chinesetubes.com", I have read that if the metal plates test out ok for 30-40 hrs they are likely to last "the distance". Chinesetubes.com have a 60 day return policy so at just under $200 for a pair I'm willing to give them a try, until hopefully Shuguang change their policy and make more Noblemen type tubes. In short,if your amp can handle them, the best non NOS 845's are the metal plate Shuguangs. |
Havent heard it, but Hightech Production Made in Germany is worth to mention:
ELROG ER 845
german review from stereoplay magazine:
http://www.stereoplay.de/ratgeber/made-in-germany-elrog-er-845-1158090.html |
Ampfibius.
Could you tell me what is the value of the bias capacitor in yours Cary 211? Thanks |
To add to my "mini review" ...as in a few posts previous to this...the Kr845 has a significantly lower noise floor then the 845m or the 845b. It is extremely quiet. It sounds like a hybrid between a 300b and an 845 if you can imagine that, combining a sense of "lushness" and sound staging like that of a 300b but with the linearity of a 845. I have no reasons to want to go back to listening with a 845b or a 845m. If i am going to be serious about my music playback i have to utilize a KR845 in my system and build the system, ie cords , around it. With this tube there is no fooling around. To balance this positive review i know of a few people who do not like it. They say it is coolish. I have an inkling as to what they might be referring too but it has within its sonic envelope attributes that can't be found in the other 845 tubes that i mention and therefore deserves to be accommodated into a system via system matching. I need to make it work because its got something! My 845m and 845b are up for sale as i write this. |
Szyckf and Amfibius, as far as I know there are no commercial 845 amplifiers that use a regulated filament supply. Not Cary, not Audio Note, nor ASL. The schematics can be found on the web.
Most DHT amps use a diode bridge > capacitor > resistor > capacitor DC supply, for two reasons:
-it costs less than a regulated supply;
-it sounds better.
AC supplies are not an option, too much hum.
Also, a regulated 10V 3.25A power supply is actually a 35-50 Watts solid state amplifier. Do we REALLY want power transistors (IC or discrete, does not matter) feeding a DHT filament, which is also the tube's signal cathode? I bet that amplifier would sound like the worst of two worlds.
So, maybe KR is feeding you marketing BS to justify a weird product?
A tube with a different heater voltage or current SHOULD get a different number. For example, there are 6SN7s and 12SN7s, self-explanatory (6 volts and 12 V heaters).
This very simple tube industry rule-of-thumb has kept users out of trouble for the last 70 years.
I wish KR and Sophia did not play those marketing games on unwary buyers.
My advice to you: do not import many of those tubes. You are bound to lose money and/or valuable customers.
I own 845 SET amplifiers and have used successfully with zero failures: Shuguang 845A, 845B, 845M and RCA 845.
I wish you good luck with your distribution deal. |
Szyckf I am definitely interested in trying the KR 845M's in my amplifier. I use a pair of Cary CAD-211AE monoblocks. I do not know if my amps have a regulated filament supply.
I haven't said so in this thread, but I have 3 KR 845's (not 845M's). I originally had two pairs, but one of them was burnt up by the amplifier - what had happened was that the bias capacitor to one of the 845's came adrift and snapped off, so that particular 845 socket was receiving a much higher bias current than all the other valves. I started to realize that something was up when the same socket kept on burning out 845's. |
You might consider a new suffix. There already is (was?) an 845M. I have a pair. |
I am the KR importer and have the only two new KR 845M's on the continent. My next shipment arriving in a few weeks should have four more 845M's.
While, I would love to say the KR's sound the best, they are not totally compatible with all amplifiers. This is why I insisted that KR reclassify their 845 as 845M.
At issue is the heater current requirements for the 845M. They draw dramatically less heater current than a traditional 845. Yes, they are way more efficient to heat, but the heater power is minimal when compared class A operation.
Many amplifier designers, to cut costs, do not use a regulated filament supply. When you use a KR tube, in these amplifiers, the voltage rises substantially above the rated heater voltage and the KR tubes burn up. This, unfortunately, is a misapplication and is quite visible in the tube and warranty replacement is difficult to defend.
An additional issue with the KR tubes is their plate coating, which is the most durable on the face of the planet (remember, metal plate tubes need an oxide coating). KR tubes need some run time to "sound proper," like 80 hours.
In a 10000 hour MTBF tube, this is small, but for flipping tubes, makes a judgement call difficult on short order.
If you would be interested in trying a pair of 845M's and your amp can handle it, email me at tubehist@renaissanceaudio.com and we will see what we can arrange. |
Having some luck with the 845-T after all. I changed the PCs on my monoblocks and rolled the tube in my DAC (ironically to a Pavane 12au7 which I did NOT like initially) and things are gelling nicely.
I have got my tonal colors back, with similar warmth, better resolution, extension and staging. It also may feel a touch more dynamic.
Other variables were changed to make it work, so I don't think I can attribute everything to the power tubes, but as I listened last night I felt the net change was positive. |
Are there any new opinions on the 845-Ts? I've still chewing on my thoughts, but so far they are not a slam dunk preference over the 845Bs they replaced in my Shuguang S845 MK monoblocks. |
I missed it, but I am very glad to read it now. :) |
You apparently didn't see my follow-up post to the one you quoted. |
"After approx. 2 weeks, my very positive view of the 845Ts has not
changed. There's been no break-in change that I can detect. "
I just received a pair of 845-Ts today and I am sincerely hoping my findings with respect to break-in do not mirror yours. They aren't bad for new tubes, but I definitely congested, a little shouty and just kind of off...
I can detect the harmonic richness, and improved soundstage over the 845Bs right off the bat, but things definitely need to relax to get my nod. |
2.5A..Thats definitely the problem. Your amp probably produces 3.25A filament current to the 300B. |
Yes they did, just notice it, definately not RCA spec, the filament current (iF) is at 2.5mA. RCA spec is 3.25mA. |
