I have owned several B&W speakers over the past 10 years including 802 and 803 n's as well as some 801 Matrtix. About two years ago I wass going to listen to and buy 801 D's. I happened to hear them along sied of Wilson Watt Puppy 7's and 8's. There was no comparison in my mind. The Wilsons sonded so much more precise and accurate with a very hard driving bass. I since have had Merlin, Dali and watt puppy 6's and 7's and now Egglestons. They all, in my mind are vastly superior to the B&W line. It is my opinion that the majority of B&W owners have never heard of most of what I just mentioned. If they heard them side by side I don't see how they would chose the B&W.
They do look good and are easy to sell on audiogon but as far as performance its like comparing a Chevy to a Porsche. Its eassy to live with a Chevy if you've never owned a Porsche, becasue you don't know what you are missing. |
Being wealthy has nothing to do with how long you keep your speakers. The great thing about Audiogon is you can try many different speaker brands and if you decide to try something else you don't have to lose your ass when you sell them.
Just make a somewhat decent buy and selling them shouldn't cost much at all. Play your cards right and you may even make a buck or 2! Sometimes its just fun to try new things.
Good luck with your purchase |
you can buy watt puppy 8's new in the crate for $16000 or maybe even less.
you can buy used 7's for $10,000 or less. And they are far more speaker than the B&W's he is talking about |
J stereo.
Drive a Porsche and then drive a Vette. I have owned several of both and they are non even in the same ball park.
The Porsche is reliable, handles way better and is just as fast and way more fun to drive. The vette is like riding in a lumber wagon. That is if you can keep it out of the shop.
comparing vettes to Porsches is just like comparing B&W's to Wilsons. |
btw based on what some of you guys are inferring. You are paying close to retail for speakers? New 7's could be purchased for under $13,000 over 2 years ago. Comparing retil prices on speakers is not even relevant. If you are paying anywhere close to retail on any speakers you are paying too much.
If your dealer is not willing to deal go elsewhere. The internet is a great tool for getting good prices on speakers.
B&W is a classic example. People payin near retail on them are just blowing away money. Shop around and use your head. |
BTW j stereo
I recently worked at one of the largest Chevy dealers in the country. I lost a deal on a Z06 because it took our service department over 2 weeks to intstall a new clutch. This car had 13,000 miles on it.
The car was bought and paid for and all we had to do was install the new clutch. We had to refund his money. Talk to just about any service manager at a chevy store about Z06 cars. They put out a lot of power but are not well built cars. Typical domestic car i guess. |
thats my point!
How anyone can compare a B&W to a Wilson is beyond me. The Sophias are ok, but the watt puppies, espcially 7's and 8's are not even close to any 800 series B&W speakers. I have heard people who pay what we do to buy speakers are all old fuddy duddies anywhay but really do we neeed to start compensating for Brain Damage? |
I had 803 Nautilus and sold them about 3 years ago. I then purchased some used watt puppy 6's for about $7000. the difference was night and day. I liked the 6's so much i also bought watt puppy 7's.
I also had some Sophias up until aobut 5 months ago. For a large room i prefer the watt puppy as they seem to fil the room much better. With the Sophia i had 2 jl audio 113 subs for home theatre.
You should be able to purchase used 6's for around $6 to 6,500. If you watch you can also buy Sophias for around $5,000. You can buy 5.1's which i have never owned for under $5k. I have heard and read both good and not so good reveiews on them.
I believe they are both far more speaker than any B&W for that kind of money. I base this on the fact that i have had all of them including 802 and 803 n's. I used the B&W's for around 5 years. I had the Wilsons for over two years. |
read the post Budt thats not what was said.
I was happy with B&W back when i didnt know about Wilson, Merlin DAli and eggleston etc. NOw that I know they exist why would i want to buy B&W.
Just like I was somewhat happy with the way my vete drove until I got to drive a porsche. Does that mean i now don't have the right to share with others what i have learned?
This whole sight is about getting the most bang for your buck. You don't get that with B&W, period. There are too many other better speakers for the same money but they don't have huge advertising budgets. Thats why this sight is so valuable. Guys like us can share what we have learned. If you read the first post the guy was looking for suggestions and help. And guess what he got it.
I got turned on to Wilson and eggleston by fellow participants here at Audiogon. and I am glad i listeened to them or i might stil be listening to B&W 802's that sound muted with a very boomy slow bass. |
The fact of the matter is it can be very hard to listen to most of the high end speakers we are talking about here, except for the B&W, before we purchase them.. Wilson, Eggleston, Thiel, Merlin etc are not that easy to find and one may have to travel hundreds of miles just to listen to them. Most of the speakers I have purchased over the past few years I had never heard until they were dropped off at my door step. I relied on reccomendations from fellow audiogoners. Reviews can be helpful but I have read good reveiws on many speakers that most people would agree sound like crap.
Are some reviewers on the take out there. Yes, reviewers are looking for favors. If you say something good about my speeakers I will give you a hell of a price on the pair you reveiwed. Also they may not say that many good things about a particular speaker but will avoid stating the obvious such as the speaker may suck! With the advertising budget of B&W a magazine has to be very careful what they print about that product.
Reviews from magazines can be a very bad place to find about about speakers. They tend to sugar coat what they say. Where one would hope fellow audiogoners would be truthfull about how they feel about a particular speaker. |
The nice thing about audiogon is you can take a chance on speakers you may have never tried before. If you change your mind or just want to try something else you shouldn't lose much money at all.
I have purchased probably 10 or more pair of speakers over the past couple of years and have never lost much more than a ocuple of hundred dollars on any of them.
It can be a hassel loading up heavy speakers like the Wilsons or Egglestons but it is a lot of fun trying different speakers. Most of them sound good and its just a matter of opinion.
The wilsons, Merlins, Dalis Egglestons, Sonus etc all sounded good in their own way. I still have to say they all sounded way better than the B&W's i had, including 802n, 803n and a few matrix. Other speakers sound much better at the same price points.
I heard about Wilson, DAli etc from fellow audiogon members and I thank them for sharing their experiences with me. Before I owne any Wilson, Daqlis etc I was very happy with B&W because i didn't know other better speakers existed. Now I do. |
For five grand you can buy new Merlins, used Egglestons, Watt puppy and sophia. Used Dali ms5's, revels and Sonus as well as a host of others. Those are some of the models i have tried over the past few year and they all in my opinion sond better than 802's. The high end in all of those speakers is much clearer and more fun to listen to. You will here sounds you never heard before when playing the B&W.
I also would suggest the bass in most of the above mentioned speakers was much more powerful and tight. You can actualy here the sticks hitting the rim from time to time.
The vest way to compare is to get a side by side a b comparison. Find a dealer who sells B&W and other high end speakers and give it a try.
It cost nothing to shop and can be very fun eye opening experience!.
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I have two home theatre systems at home. MY main listening room i use for both ht and stereo listening. I do watch a lot of concert dvd's. With the Wilsons and the Egglestons i was using Krell TAS 5 channel amp. Before that I used a 5 channel Classe. From what I hear a lot of guys listening to stereo only prefer tubes.
There is a guy on Audiogon I think he is called dolfin? He sells lots of Eggleston stuff. Get ahold of him i bet he can get you a pair of Andra 1's in the 5 to 6k range. I beleive he sells new egglestons as well. The used ones he can get might come totaly refurbished from the factory with new drivers etc. Nice man an he knows his stuff.
You can also buy Sophhias for around 5K. They are available all the time and when people get the bug and want to move something they will sell them cheap.
gl |
My system is very hard to set up because of the location and most of it is very hard to get to and it runs the whole house so when i buy new electronics i have to pay my installer to come out and it always cost me hundreds of dollars. For that reason I dont experiment with electronics as much as i would like to. The Krell and Classe stuff sounds good to me but i am sure there are much better amps for similar dollars out there.
The best place to find out about those things is right here. I would suggest if you go with Wilson you will want to makes ure your interconnects and everything else upstream is very good. If not it will show. |
