I have a pair of Klipschorns being driven by Cary 805C. For me that sounds very good. Although, I know there are horn speakers out there that sounds much better. Your question is about the AV Duo and Uno--Well I've heard the Duo and the Trios; to be honest I was not impress, I don't know what the big fuzz is all about. For others they might like it, I find them with a bit of "Coloration". I like speakers that are very natural sounding and revealing. |
Thanks, justubes. So do you find AV less transparent & detailed than the better dynamic speakers |
I own the Unos and have heard the Duos many times. The Duos in the right room are more coherent, but oddly enough in my space challenged room, the Unos work very well. They are really UNCOLORED as far as "horn" colorations go. They sound modern, and very alive. They certainly make music. |
Glai
Don't get me wrong, at lot of people like coloration on their speakers. AV as being one of them. You have to remember AV's are not fully horn loaded they are hybrids. To answer your question--Absolutely. AV are less transparent and detailed than fully horn loaded speakers. If you ever get chance; see if you can listen to a pair of Edgarhorns Titans. Apparently they are one of the best if not the best sounding horn speakers out there. |
Justubes--hi. Every speaker ever made is colored. If this was not so, many of us would have sound in our homes identical to the concert stage. Like probably every other high performance speaker at their level, the Avantgardes require careful attention to speaker positioning, cables, and using electronics that are synergistic to the speakers. Also, the use of the newer and faster subwoofers are necessary. Lacking this attention, the AGs will not perform to their potential.
If you let Kmart install cheapo tires on your Maseratti (or even good performance tires) and they incompetently balance these tires, your $250,000 car surely will not perform near its potential. This lack of performance is not the fault of your Maseratti.
If you walk by a home with music playing thru an open window, or in a home with music playing in an adjacent room, it is a simple task to determine if the music is live or reproduced via a stereo. There are many reasons for this. In my view one of the reasons that the AGs are so good and unique is if those are Avantgardes playing the music when you walk by, it is indeed possible that you believe that the music is live and not recorded. That suspension of believe in making recordings come alive makes Avantgardes special speakers. |
Tubes108
Why do I feel like I'm related to you or something. Anyway, as I have said in the past, I've sat in front of a pair of Trios for a good hour or two and did not get that Live performance you are saying. But this is just my own opinion. |
Hey Justubes--we are related, no?? Sorry I was not clear. In part I tried to indicate that the Avantgardes, like all high performance speakers in their class, require care and skill, etc. to achieve their sonic potential. Unless the I's were dotted and the T's were crossed etc with the pair you heard for that hour or two, they indeed would not float your boat or anyone's boat. As you mention you did not hear even a hint of that that live sound, which implies to me that there were some issues with the system you heard.
Another example. There is no doubt that Quads are special speakers. Yet, when I have heard them at CES, at other audio shows, and at most dealers, their sound was nothing special. I have also heard them properly set up in the right room and used with the correct gear, and the sound in some ways was world class.
It is difficult to listen to one installation and make a judgment about any piece of gear. The installation may lack synergy or some colorations may only be noticeable over a longer period of time. Certainly each listener has their own taste and priorities, and I respect it if you heard the AGs properly set up and did not fall in love. Though from the little you mentioned, it does sound as though you did not hear them in an ideal situation. Enjoy them tubes, Justubes!!! |
Hi Glai,
I've owned Duos for the last four years and I currently own Avantgarde's new Meta Primos. Prior to owning the Duos I owned the fantastic sounding Hales Transcendence 8 loudspeaker. I have three friends who own Duos, two friends who own Unos, and one friend who owns Solos. I've also listened to three different Trio set-ups. The strengths of the Avantgarde line of loudspeakers are: life-like dynamics, transparency, uncolored, speed, focus, dynamic contrast, dynamic shading, imaging, they bring out all the raw emotion in recordings. The weaknesses are: not easy to set-up, very easy to make them sound bad, very picky about amplification (very revealing of amplifier noise), you almost have to use tube amplification, and bass integration with horns. The Duos better the Unos in the midrange. The Duo horn goes down 170 hz where the Unos midrange goes down to 220 hz. IMHO the Duos are slightly warmer/richer sounding compared to the Unos. If you liked the Duos with a Cary 805C, then you'll love listening to them with a good 45, 2A3, PX25 or 300B SET amplifier. Avantgarde is one of those products that some very vocal people love to hate. Most of it comes from the Do it Yourself (DIY)community and some of it comes from resentment of the high price tag. They are not perfect but I like them. Take care! |
Gotta love horns, makes me hornie |
the unos and duos are unique and a conversation piece, but not the equal of the khorn or the belle as horns go. |
OH man, this is gonna get good...lol |
I do agree that Avantgardes if not properly set up will not preform to it's fullest. I think it would be safe to say "that all goes for any speaker". That being said, it would be very sad to say that those trios that I've heard was not properly setup or maybe they were, who knows--it was not my listening room. All I can remmeber is that the fellow who had them had an easy 150k of gears in that room. If you guys claim that my bad experience with AV was due to bad setup--then I would really like to hear them in a listening room with the right gears. I travel a lot and I will be in the Jersey, New York city area a week from now. Is there any dealers of Avantgardes in that area where I can have a listening session. Maybe my feelings for these speakers will change after all. Unless they are not properly setup again. |
Rhapsody Audio in NYC is a dealer. They also carry Joseph Audio speakers. Very different sounding from the Avantgard's but still state of the art.
How can two speakers ... essentially state of the art, each trying to capture "perfect sound", each designed with real live music in mind, with the same standard to try and replicate ... sound so damn different?
Enjoy,
Bob |
How can two speakers ... essentially state of the art, each trying to capture "perfect sound", each designed with real live music in mind, with the same standard to try and replicate ... sound so damn different? Bob, I believe you've just summed up this hobby with one simple question. |
I have never owned the Unos, but I once owned the Duos and Trios. I don't look back with much favor on my experience with them. I could never get the Duos positioned properly as the woofers are part of the frame. I thought the bass with them was frankly terrible. The Trios did allow me to position the horns and the woofers separately, and as a result I got much better bass with them. A friend with Trios went so far as to use another amp on the woofers. His sound much better than I could ever get using the cheap Avanteguard amps.
I always thought also that not using compression drivers shortchanged the performance of these speakers as they were not very fast sounding. I thought the top end was not very extended. Finally, I thought the great displacement of the drivers relative to each other meant that one would have to be quite far from them to get very integrated sound, perhaps 20 feet from them.
As your amp does not have to cover anything below 150 Hz, they are easy to drive.
I bought Beauhorn Virtuosos and was much more satisfied. |
Thanks for your post TBG. At least I know I was not the only one who thinks that Avantgardes are not doing what others claim they can do. Just to clarify things, my opinion is just that--My Opinion. |
I've heard the uno's and was not really impressed
Check out the Tonian Labs speakers they really are special
I have the TL NFSM monitor
To others they may not be your cup of tea
They are worth mentioning as they beat out the uno's in my rig |
