There are two receivers I've owned that I deem "good enuf" to operate as a stand alone audio system. While I only used them in my HT, had I the desire, or half a brain that didn't have to have more expensive gear, both of those receivers would serve a NORMAL person more than adequately.
Those receivers were:
Sunfire Ultimate Receiver II
B&K Ref 507 S2
The Sunfire, having the better amplifier of the two, I could have lived with very easily. It's essentially has the same preamp used in their stand alone preamp. It has a DIRECT mode that bypasses unnecessary circuitry that is quite good. It's the first audiophile quality receiver I'd experienced that could be dubbed audiophile quality. It even had an excellent phono stage! It sold new for $5k back in '05. To think I snagged that one for sale at $675 was a very nice bargain.
The B&K I acquired off Craig's simply because it was a good buy. It too having 7 channels of amplification would serve any 'normal' person well. Those of us with THE disease of course can't get past the idea of having one box do it all. But if I was stranded on an island with Raquel Welch and a lowly Sunfire Ultimate I could be quite content.
These pop up on eBay at great buys, and one could do well to grab them when they do for they typically sell for the going price of a stand alone 5 channel Cinema Grand. |
It always amazes me how Queefee's type spouts on and on about the merits of a component without having heard it or set eyes upon a component in question. Whatever! You've missed the point, which was can a receiver's output be good enough to justify replacing hi end separates. In the case of the Sunfire Ultimate, I've owned one before, while at the same time owning separates i.e., BAT's flagship VK1000 mono's and a VK51SE costing thousands more than the Sunfire, and the Ultimate's performance was good enuf to make me question why the heck do I have thousands more invested in this hobby if this receiver can perform this good?
I rest my case...which is supported far more than merely having read some reviewers dribbled remarks from some stereo magazine and now thinking I'm somehow now qualified to pass judgement on a given component of which I've no hands on experience. |
It hardly chokes, for your ears would give out long before the amplifiers. The Ultimate drove 7 electrostats, which was no easy task, with ease. Even your reviewer measurement emphasized how superior it was into 2 channels. These amps really do produce the goods. I only used it in my HT system, but it was the only product that ever gave me pause to question why do I invest in megabuck inventory for 2 channel only listening when I can obtain this kind of performance at this price. That's all I'm suggesting. It's a fine product, and worthy of consideration, especially if you're on a budget like most people |
Actually it was ML's.
I'm stating the facts as I know them from personal experience, rather than making assumptions based upon a closed mind, or in the very least someone else's experience. Those are the facts as I know them. |
Hifihvn, would you consider a receiver clipping out at 276 wpc "choking out?" I don't. The Pioneer's, Denon's, and whatever else you cited earlier all "choke out" far before that, nor would I think they'd be anywhere as musical a receiver as the Sunfire was.
My personal hands on experience stands behind the Ultimate based upon personal performance experiences, not based upon some web review measurements. Where else can one invest $675 into a $5k receiver that was capable of driving 7 Martin Logan speakers to ear shattering levels, and as if that wasn't enuf, it ran cool.
Hifihvn, what was your experience with it? Oh, you've had none? Need I say more... |
Let's put this to rest. Anyone truly interested in how the Ultimate performs merely has to enter the "Ultimate Receiver" into the forum search engine, to read one accolade upon another from those that have owned them.
I've nothing to gain from promoting the performance of any product. Either something works well or it doesn't.
There's a folly and risk of using someone else's statistics, rather than your own experience with a product on these forums. To suggest Sunfire amps aren't capable of driving ML's makes you appear as a complete fool, for they've a reputation to the contrary. It's common knowledge in fact, perhaps except to HiFihvn, that Sunfire drives ML's into oblivion, and that was one of the products largest seller point at any dealer carrying the two products. They were always featured together at any hi end store. But I understand Hifihvn, you didn't read that fact among your stat sheets.
In this instance your stats have failed you. Citing irrelevant reviews to somehow bolster a false belief system as it pertains to a particular product doesn't change reality. Most Sunfire products work fabulously. From your own admission you've no personal experience with the product being mentioned. Therefore you've no real opinion to share regarding Sunfire product other than a bias against it. That much is clear to anyone. |
Never provided a model number? What planet R U on? It's not as if I wrote it in Paruski! Vwee gavarite PaEngliski? Do you read English?
But I have to give it to you Hifi, that's an ingenious cover to suggest you didn't understand my constant referrals to the Ultimate were the only receiver I was referring to.
Something you don't know is the Sunfire gear was produced 6 miles from my home. I've met Bob, he's been in my home. Bob believes his amps excel at driving ML's. It's not a big deal, he's a normal guy like all of us. I stand by my statement. The Ultimate is good enuf to stand alone for anyone who desires a quality receiver to do it all. It even has a phono input. Case closed, except for naysayers that don't know the product. |
Oh that's a good one Hifi...Beware, your slip is showing...that's an awfully huge assumption. The man is retired, he or I could give a hoot what you or anyone thought of the gear he previously produced. If you must know I met him as a result of having a component repaired by his repair facility. People who assume their own facts always amaze me. Is there lil' wonder this country is mired down in two wars and just a hair's breath away from the Chinese owning everything. Do you vote? :)
I don't encourage anyone to buy anything. Again, and for the final time, I'm commenting on my personal experiences with said gear. What someone chooses to buy with their own hard earned dollar is their business. I stay out of that. The real distinction between our comments is, I've owned and thoroughly heard what the components in question are capable of. You've established that you've not heardn or owned them, yet you're encouraging others not to sample a product you yourself have no personal knowledge of. Oh, that's just brilliant!
Which ML? Take your pick, I've owned all the first and most of the 2nd generation speakers, and Vantages from the 3rd generation. My currents are CLSiiz's, but not in the home theater room.
Some folks on these forums just enjoy being cantankerous, no matter the subject matter. I get it...peace out! |
Hifihvn,
You don't get it. The reference I made was not about your reference to politics, but instead to the same type of flawed intelligence that's created two needless wars. They're equal in that they're both mired in flawed intelligencia.
Fact. I drove 7 ML's speakers in an all ML system with a Sunfire Ultimate II Receiver to greater than adequate levels, without once experiencing any issues whatsoever. Ironically enough, but not to those who've actually owned Sunfire amps, the amplifier is the strongest suit of the receiver you seem so bent against, even though you've never heard or used one.
By your own admission you've never heard the Sunfire Ultimate, let alone had the opportunity to hear it in an all ML system. All you've provided as repetitive diatribe is the sound of a blank page read from some reviewers comments.
What's that sound like? Oh that's right, it's dead silence.
It's pointless for someone to comment on any component without having first hand experience to share. All of your comments are based upon someone else's experience: this reviewer said, and that reviewer said. What's your experience...by your own admission you've got none. The flaw in your logic is equal to someone refusing to view a movie based upon a reviewer's negative feedback.
The only opinion that matters is what's between my ears while I'm sampling a product in my own humble abode. Reviewers opinions are meaningless, as is forum commentary from those who've no first hand knowledge of a product. Again, that's the same type of ignorant logic that's directly responsible for the creation of unnecessary death, destruction, and mayhem. |
"Now, it is not a 200 Dollar reciever as it was the topend av reciever for Marantz when it came out around 2000-1."
As was the $5k retail Sunfire Ultimate Receiver when it was released, but that's meaningless to the naysayer's on this board who've not sampled any product beyond a reviewers suggestions or a personal bias. You can lead some folks to water but...and that's as it should be. I've owned mega priced gear, and it's not that much better to justify its price. That's my point. |
Hifihvn,
If we're going to paraphrase in a forum as common courtesy the least we can do is to quote another correctly.
I've emphasized that
A) I used the Ultimate in the context of a home theater setting
B) that I found its performance good enough to stand alone on its own merits and therefore good enough to be used in the context of a 2 channel system and
C) I don't give orders or recommendations what decisions others should make regarding their purchases.
I've only commented on what my personal experience was with this receiver, which by the way cannot be compared or categorized with a run of the mill Pioneer or other traditional type receiver. The Ultimate is anything but a standard receiver.
It may only be my experience but I've discovered components have a way of convincing themselves to us rather than requiring others convince us of their merit. But one has to actually own or in the least have long term use of a component to establish its actual merit.
However, it's quite interesting that so many posts later you're now attempting to establish that you've at least "heard" it, almost as if to attempt to establish credibility to your obvious biases. But we'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you've at least heard it. So, you've heard it, and didn't experience it to your liking. I owned it and found it an excellent standalone choice to which one could base their entire system. To each their own, and that's as it should be. As a personal habit I always operate a discrete 2 channel system separate from HT, but if I didn't I could live very happily with the Ultimate all on its own.
Another case solved :)
Enjoy! |
Of course the VAC will sound "different." It's a tube amp. So often audiophiles categorize different as better. I don't confuse different with better. Different is simply that. I own some fairly hi priced gear, but keep the Sunfire around just to have on hand for it does everything meaning, providing an am-fm tuner, phonostage, and of course 2 channel audio. I actually don't use it in the home theater room.
But in the Sunfire's stead it will do something an ordinary tube amp won't do. It'll drive CLS's, whereas they'll eat most tube amps for lunch. As always the case there's no hard and fast rule in audio. What works for one doesn't work for everyone. It works for me, what works for someone else is their choice. Viva la difference! |
