My JC1's sit on 1/2" thick glass (can be seen in system pics). I know glass is not the ideal shelf for audio, but I love this rack and don't want to part with it. My question is... Would my system benefit by putting Aurios Pro's under the amp's? Or would it just be a waste of money. Of course, if I had a couple of spare sets of Aurios laying around, I would just try it, but I don't.
You should put the JC1 on top of the rocket ship instead of under it!
Seriously, if you want to kill two birds with one stone (the 2nd "bird" being to kill any ringing in the glass) then I'd recommend a number 4 Vibrapod under each foot of the amp. I did my ML 23.5 that way, and it soaks up all the little micro-vibes from the electronics.
In my universe, mechanical diodes such as cones, balls, and rollers, work best for draining off mechanical vibration produced by thinks with motors/mechanisms, like CD players and turntables.
The only device out there that works for both IMO are Stillpoints, if you can afford them. Plus, the Vibrapods will take the ringing out of your shelf, where Stillpoints and the diode devices won't.
A much less expensive solution that worked for me under my 65 lb. solid state amp was the use of 2" x 2" x 1" cork squares (4 of them). These are the ones where the cork is sandwiched between two pices of rubber. They are available from HVAC parts suppliers as they are used under heavy heating and AC equipment to drain vibrations. They run about $1.50 apiece. If you want to pay more you can get them through Mapleshade (I think they call them Isoblocks).
Get rid of the glass! It rings, obviously. Likewise, I do not recommend the cork-and-rubber sandwich isolators which tend to rob the music of richness and energy. I recommend rigid stands and good cones or spikes, with some careful tuning of resonances. Brian
When I owned Lamm M1.1's, I tried Aurio Pro's under my amps (and they provided the least benefit under the amps which were on my floor), I also own Sistrum Stands and theses too made minimal to no difference on the amps. Both of the products made a noticable difference under source, preamp, and subwoofer (huge difference).
I made the mistake of owning a Glass rack once and that caused me to go on the Isolation/decoupling merrygo round trying to fix what the ringing glass shelves created.
For less money buy some amp stands and put the amps on the floor. (Sistrum, Billy Bags (with MDF shelves), etc...)
Brian, I've heard/read many times that glass rings. What, if any, detrimental effects could this have on my amps and/or cdp which sits on Aurios Pro's w/Tungstan Carbide balls on a glass shelf? Am I not isolating from the glass with Aurios? I require a rack that will accomidate my 27" tube tv. I understand that the tv being in the mix really throws a wrench into the program, and that's why I like this particular rack I am running. But, I can't remove the tv from the mix, it's just not an option. Also, I can (fairly) easily move this rack out for cabling and such. Any suggestions???
Essentialaudio makes some good points. However, tweaking is not an exact science. If it were we'd all know what to do for our individual system set-ups based on simple formulas. It's really easy to go out and spend hundreds of dollars in tweaks that after experimentation, result in your sound ending up right back where you started. Tweaking is a form of tuning. Trying to compensate for inefficiecies in our set-up or room to get the most from our gear. In other words we are voicing our system to it's surroundings. Much like a musician would voice an instrument to a room that it is played in.
Unfortunately, because of some preferences/limitations of your set-up, only you can voice your gear to it's surroundings, unless of course an audiophile who lives near you can provide assistance. It's really time to hunker down and try some of these suggestions and see what works for you and what doesn't. Many vendors provide 30 day trials so all you have to lose is shipping costs and your time. I myself have found the rubber/cork sandwiches very useful contrary to Essentialaudio's statement, but that doesn't mean his statement is false.
However, just to show you how far I have taken this science (and my methods have certainly not achieved perfection - but I'm happy with the results), I use a 2" thick maple amp stand with 3" brass cones, suspension rack (pAarticular Triangle), Still Points, Sound Anchor speaker stands (with Herbie's black dots), Herbie's Halos, and HRS damping plates. I've also addressed echo and first reflection point issues in my room with Golden Sound Acoustic Discs and some home made diffusors.
So, keep the glass and try some of the devices mentioned and see where it goes. BTW - Granite Audio just came out with some Cat Paws which look promising. Might be worth a try. If by some coincidence you're in the SoCal area I'd be glad to lend a hand and an ear.
One way to get glass to quit ringing is to put another piece of glass (or marble, or granite) on top with a thin sheet of foam (or sorbothane, or blue tack) between them.
Tvad, as much as I appreciate the offer, I think I'm gonna pass. But I did read all the info on Symposium's website, very comprehensive. I had never really looked into them before. But the more I read and research, it sounds as if there would be a very negligible improvement, if any. Perhaps that money would be better spent in cabling and/or power conditioning for my source, I don't know. It's quite a stellar system, IMO, just trying to squeeze every last ounce out of it and make it the best it can be. It certainly couldn't hurt to try some of the cheaper alternatives though, such as the rubber/cork sandwiches that Clio09 mentions. And I read all the info on the Cat/Tiger Paws, very interesting. They would look way cool under my amps, but they sound like they could be a bit cumbersome to use, and they're a little pricy, IMO.
Still not sure what "ringing" glass means and/or it's effects on my system, if any. Ever seen that compressed rubber high density flooring used in commercial applications? I have samples of that at home. I think I'll try cutting some small squares of it and slip them between the feet on my amps and the glass and see if I can discern any effect. Maybe this will give me some insight as to what direction, if any, to take...
Perfectionist - the rubber pieces may actually be an interesting discovery for you. One thing about rubber though from what I have learned, is that the durometer rating could play a factor. Products like sorbothane or the rubber-based dampening products you can find at McMaster-Carr work differently based on durometer rating and the load placed on them. I recently had a friend test the rubberized material used in the HRS damping plates and he found it to have a durometer rating of 40. So he sent me some plain old rubber squares with the same rating to see how it might work on various components (top covers and underneath). I'm in the process of trying them out now so we'll see what happens.
Tvad - I'm not sure if this is going to take you where you need to go, but:
http://www.mcmaster.com/
If it is not a direct link, then type in "carbide balls" (sans parentheses) in the search box. When the navigation tree pops up on the left select Tungsten Carbide Balls, then Precision Grade 25..., then you size.
I meticulously (see moniker) cut small squares of the above mentioned rubber flooring and slid them between the amps footers and glass. I was anticipating no effect, LOL, I was wrong. I'll preface this by saying I make no audio assessments on Friday night's. My system never sounds as good on Friday night as it does on Saturday night, with the best day ALWAYS being Sunday (all day). That said, with said rubber squares there was more inner detail and better soundstaging, but the bass is not as tight. I will continue to assess throughout the weekend, but I'm already thinking that the amps WILL benefit with some sort of iso device.
Another product that is better is called Brass Mi-Rollers,Jr. from http://www.mihorn.com, you can get Demo brass Mi-Roller, Jrs. for $9.00 each. A tweak that makes these Mi-Rollers sound even better is to put a copper penny on top of each Mi-Roller, I have two on each Mi-Roller and things sound even better! Great Tweak!
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