Anyone famaliar with the manufacturer,and in particular this pre amp.The credentials and testimonials seem impressive.The advertised 10 day audition is appealing.
Hey, Bill( Grannyring). How's that updated TP 2.0 sounding to you? Are you ready yet to give us a brief comparison of the differences? I'm a pretty anxious TP 2.0 owner ready to make the move myself.
Regarding the 2.0 to 2.1 upgrade, I will have an announcement to make about that at the end of October. Right now, I'm asking for your help.
Joseph and I will be attending the RMAF show in Denver this coming weekend. There are many reasons for going, but one of them is to explore forming a show partnership with a small, quality speaker manufacturer and perhaps a quality amplifier manufacturer. We are too small to afford to participate on our own, but perhaps next year we can afford to partner with other manufacturers. If you have any manufacturers you know or whose products you own that you think might be candidates, please let us know.
Another reason for going is to introduce ourselves to reviewers. In the next couple of months, reviews of the TP 2.1RnB/TP8.0iMCpn integrated preamplifier will be appearing in Stereomojo and a review of the TP 8.0sMCpn will be appearing in 10Audio. We hope that a couple of additional laudatory reviews on top of the Dagogo and these two might help us break out.
So if you have anyone you think we should search out at the Show, please let us know.
Here are my initial impresssions of my newly upgraded TP 2.0 preamp. First, I would like to treat these comments as if comparing two different preamps. I really feel the upgraded version is far better. For me, the improvement was not subtle but rather dramatic. I know Victor has stated the upgrade offered slight improvements, however, I feel a little differently.
In a nutshell, the upgraded version brings you much closer to the music. The sound stage is spread out wider with far better deliniation of instruments across the stage. Even on the most complex of music passages, each instrument and space around the instrument is easily discerned. The highs have more sparkle, crashing cymbols sound more live and deliver greater impact. Vocals are rendered smoother. I am now able to understand words and phrases previously unrecognizable. I am also hearing instruments and sounds on my recordings that I have not heard before.
One area of significant improvment is how well the unit plays when turned up. There is less compression, and my music simply sounds as good at very loud listening levels as it does at softer levels.
Base is far more articulate and has greater slam. The original version would have a tendency to sound a little constipated in the base while the upgraded version does not hold back and is freer with the base notes.
In an A/B shootout comparision, I would easily pick the upgraded version and purchase it over the original. I am shocked at the overall improvement and did not expect such a wide gap between the new and old.
This is after only 30 hours of burn-in. The upgrade costs only $300 and is the best $300 I have ever spent on my system.
The upgrade is a no-brainer in my small mind. I am closer to the music hearing instruments - not sounds. The articulation of the details in each instrument are so much more obvious.
Yes, I am sending my DAC back for the same upgrade once a get another $400 - 2 more caps then the pre.
If I sound excited, it is because I am!! Perhaps others did not find the improvement as dramatic as me or perhaps they did and write with a little less exuberance. It may be my room and system are mated well for this upgrade, but I love it!!
Make no mistake, in my system, in my room and with my tastes, this upgrade is big leap forward.
Perhaps this one comment sums up the differnce the best. The audience clapping on several of my live music discs used to sound homogeneous and smeared. Well the upgraded preamp delivers the clapping far differently. I can hear 1000 hands individually clapping. I noticed this change immediately as I like live CD's.
My system for those who have not read it before;
AH upgraded and fully loaded pre AH 3.0 dac - soon to be upgraded Belles 350 Reference amp Proceed PMDT transport Dalis Grand speakers
AH transparency cables all around except a Music Metre Fidulus digital cable - love it!
BPT line conditioners - two of them - one for digital and one for the amps
Two direct 20 amp lines to my system Full room treatment with traps,panals etc Star Sound Sistrum audio rack with audio points Star Sound Sistrum speaker platforms with audio points Mapleshade brass heavy hats
Thank you, Bill, for taking the time to give us your impressions of the upgraded preamp. I feel your enthusiasm and it is contagious. I guess I better get on the bandwagon. Enjoy the music.
Here is my impression of 2.1 after more than 120 hrs. superlative bass with slam and real control. The mid range is smooth, rich and gooey. Upper end sounds like percussion and upper octaves of electric guitars have individual and unique sound with air and transparency. i am so excited with this 2.1, that i was able to get some early 60s seimens cca tubes which are on there way. i just could not resist and had to hear that additional air and transparency that is written about on this thread. its a nice rainy day and perfect for music so its time for some rock and roll.
System synergy is so important as well as personal preferences in sound. Not just gear synergy, but also room. I had the Supratek Cortese and Syrah as well as a CJ lS16 V2 in a system of mine about 2 years ago. Had all three great preamps for over a month to play with in my sound room. The CJ was the best of the three in that room and in my system back then.
I ended up owning the CJ and felt it was the best I heard until it went up against the AH a year ago. The AH was clearly better then the CJ which I liked better than the Cortese as I mentioned above.
I compared the AH to the CJ in a new room and with a different amp and cabling as an FYI.
I find the AH very 3D in my current room. My room is 19 feet wide by some 29 feet long. My speakers are a good 6.5 feet from the back wall.
I think the room, room size, gear, wire, room treatment, gear and wire compatability etc all come together making it very difficult to say on piece of gear is ALWAYS better then another when both pieces are world class.
The Cortese is a very fine preamp. I do remember both the Syrah and Cortese having a house sound if you will. They were not as pure and neutral as the AH and that in itself will bring different conclusions based on preferences. Both Supratek units were so smooth that over time the smoothness was evident on every disc I owned. I liked the sound, but the point is I knew it was the preamp's sound in my system. Both Supratek units are more "tube" sounding then the AH preamp in the best way. More fullness or roundness to the sound compared to the AH.
I suspect tube rolling could even change things more with these fine preamps.
I know Tvad, myself and others are having fun both listening to music and playing with gear!
Grannyring, Did Joseph give you a parts,etc. breakdown of what all he did in your 2.0 upgrade. I have sent my preamp to Joseph to have mine done and was curious if Joseph gave you an itemization of what he did.
Thanks Bill, you got me very interested. My 2.0nB was made right before the switch to 2.1 and therefore Joseph put in some of what the newer unit has. I will have to check out the difference. I am very happy for you that you achieved such improvement - that is always satisfying Joe
I just checked the website and didn't see anything about the upgrade from 2.0 to 2.1. Lots of info on the upgrades for the 2.1 itself as well as various upgrades to other preamp brands as well though. Maybe that is why Victor commented that he'll be making an announcement at the end of the month about this particular upgrade. I wonder why he's going to wait until the end of the month. Hmmmmm...
SLtrains - Thanks for posting your impressions. I am not sure what a gooey mid-range is, can you elaborate?
Tvad - Thanks for posting a good-eared and respectful different point of view. I have been intrigued by those products and now may make an effort to hear them sometime. My AH seems so much less flat than the solid state it replaced, but my experience with different tube units is very limited.
Yes, Stltrains. I also want to know what "gooey" means. I just checked your system. Man, you have a nice system, and do I see correctly that you have five preamps? Do you collect preamps and alternate occasionally for a different sound and perspective? Very interesting. By the way, great photo of you and the Mrs. enjoying the beach.
Alright guys gooey is that tubie sound that only a tubed piece of gear can deliver. just my opinion thought i would add a juicy type of word to the already loaded audiophile dictionary. Sherod the ear 834p is my backup phono amp. the marsh p2000t is my preamp backup. i really hate it when my system is down because of upgrades or problems. so i have a few spares. the wife and me on most nights have some sort of sports on with rock and roll playing for our musical enjoyment. Sherod you are being to kind with the photo. we love music, but going to the beach ranks right up there to. and thanks for the kind words on our system it has been a long road getting a system going again after the total loss of all due to katrina, or should i say the federally failed levee system and dumb ditch canal. what a joke. pardon me if i got off of the audio discussion.
Sherod, Here is a post from Victor on the upgrade and what is included. Take a look as this helps.
Recently, Joseph took a TP 2.1nB to Cedar, who in the past has acted as a beta tester for us, to compare to his TP 2.0nB. In addition to a number of small changes made to the 2.1, at the last minute in the 2.1n we decided to replace the Hovland caps used to a larger, more expensive proprietary brand. This decision occurred after I had written my post announcing the impending introduction of the TP 2.1. The new capacitors are so sensitive to interference that each capacitor must be individually wrapped and shielded with thick copper foil.
Cedar was so impressed by the sonic improvement of the TP 2.1nB that he asked Joseph to upgrade his TP 2.0nB and his TD 3.0n.
When Audio Horizons was founded, we had a couple of clear marketing goals: 1) to provide a clear upgrade path for owners so that when they could afford enhancements, they could upgrade the performance of their Audio Horizons components (and thus be certain they were improving the performance of their system) instead of replacing them, and 2) to shun a marketing philosophy based on change and obsolescence.
As part of this second goal, we have decided to put together an upgrade option which would permit TP 2.0n and TP 2.0nB owners to upgrade their 2.0n and 2.0nBÂ’s to 2.1n and 2.1nB. The upgrade will not yield all the benefits of the newer model because some of the gains from improved layout can not be translated, but most of the gains will be incorporated--all those that can be included will be. There are six areas that will be addressed:
1. We will add four capacitors to reduce input switching noise.
2. We will remove the old multipath wiring harness from the RCA jacks to the volume pot and to the main preamplifier PC board and replace it with a new upgraded wire harness, which now comes wrapped in an extra isolating layer of Teflon for better noise suppression.
3. As a result of this harness improvement and isolation and by virtue of shielding the new proprietary caps, we find that the line filter is no longer necessary to filter out high frequency noise; in fact it actually introduces extraneous noise. We will remove the line filter and bypass it. This line filter was never a part of the “n” upgrade: it was always part of the original design and exists in the TP 2.0 as well. It will be returned to you.
4. We will remove the Hovland caps, which also will be returned to you, and replace them with the larger, more expensive shielded capacitors we now use in the TP 2.1n version. Our cost for these capacitors before shielding is just under $80. We think they are worth the extra cost and believe you will agree after listening to them.
5. We will diagnose and address any problems some of you have reported with ground loop issues or tube microphonics.
6. Finally Joseph will inspect the preamplifier to be certain it is operating properly.
Because of size and layout changes, it will be impossible to upgrade the chassis and faceplate.
The cost of this upgrade will be $300. Please understand, these upgrades are not a big profit center for Joseph. We are offering them so that those who want the latest Audio Horizons refinements can order them. The caps are not always easy to get so we will need you to schedule your 2.0n to 2.1n conversion closely.
I have asked Cedar to post his impressions of the sonic benefits of the upgrade. His impressions mirror our own but we thought you would like to hear them from a disinterested owner who has now lived with the upgrade for
I personally like my original style (others may or may not agree) because of the additional room inside to work with)
Having remote does not interest me either, I'm much more concerned with sonics and having Joseph hot-rod my TP 2.0 to even higher levels than imagined (more $$ of course)
Grannyrings *3rd paragraph* of his initial impressions echoes mine to a proverbial T.
Increasing the volume "without strain or hardness" is a VERY BIG issue with me. (I think it has to do with the size and build quality of the power supply, besides noise issues)
Having the music pour out in a huge, liquid, stable, unstrained and totally relaxed manner is paramount in my preferences (the highs, mids, bass etc, etc, should already be a given when attaining this status)
I've had many top preamps (owned, on-loan, borrow) pass through my shelf in the years besides my highly modded SA-5000A and none of them could pass this test (yet)
Of course, AC treatment and other components should be chosen carefully.
A buddy of mine has a Walker-Steelhead combo that literally kicks major butt and passes the test quite handily on many ocassions (due to recording variances) so I feel I have a pretty good reference of what I like (it's NOT the sound adjective descriptives like I said above) it is the *way-of-the-entire-presentation* the so-called magic of the soundstage.
I think Joseph's preamp is his forte' and has even greater potential than imagined.
Grannyring, thanks for the info. I do rememember now reading about what Joseph did to Cedar's 2.0 upgrade. I still am curious what announcement Victor is going to make about this upgrade at the end of the month. I also echo the above comments about the overall sound of the 2.0 preamp. Stltrains, I guess we can live with your new word gooey. I see images of melting caramel with this word; makes me kind of hungry.
The post that Grannyring cited above itemizing the 2.0 to 2.1 upgrade is obsolete and no longer describes all the changes. Additional changes have been made to the 2.1 to improve it and those changes were included in Grannyring's upgrade, which is why the difference between the 2.0 and 2.1 has grown greater than when I first commented.
I will have a full report on all those changes and more at the end of the month.
Sherod, in general I don't. But I had an open question in my last post about the RMAF and was following to see whether anyone had commented. So far, a couple have sent me private emails, which I appreciate.
Well being a saint fan thank goodness i have the best medicine for the pain of going 0fer, our system. My loner AH 2.1 seems to be mating very well with my Nuforce amps and Tyler Linbrook Signatures. This group of components are throwing a super music stage, with detail and definition. Great imaging and musical satisfaction. After yesterdays debacle in the dome we came home put some shrimp on the BBQ and preceded to play some serious rock and roll. Along with our favorite grape juice of course. When we are doing sit down serious listening the source is my analog front end. i just got a very nice copy of King Crimsons Court of the Crimson King. This lp is recorded very nice, and it sounds great in our system. We proceeded to play lps until 10 last night. A good 6 hr music session. No fatigue or drifting just a super evening and night of music. And the best medicine for the saints blues.
Hey, speaking of the Audio Horizons Glee Club( i.e. Markwattkiss), is anyone else going to the RMAF in Denver? I wish I could but work and lack of funds keeps me at home this year. I just blew my discretionary income on the 2.1 upgrade. Maybe next year. If anyone does go, please try to meet up with Joseph and Victor( maybe take some photos?) and report back on this thread next week. Have fun for those who are going.
Sherod i was talking to the wife about the RMAF and being from a area thats some what lacking in audio stores i am giving serious thought into making nexts years show. I would love to be able to have a better perspective of audio gear thats available. After 40 plus years of enjoying this hobby i have never been to a hifi show of any kind. Its on my list of things to do. I sure would like to get a few others in the area to form some sort of a audio get together thing. so far no luck.
Well, folks. Joseph just finished my 2.1 upgrade and has shipped out my preamp. I expect it to arrive early next week and can't wait to listen to it. Man, I'm glad that I've developed patience over the years. I sure do miss my preamp. By the way. If you do return something back to Joseph for an upgrade, mod,etc., make sure that you pack it well in the original double box that Joseph shipped it to you in the beginning. I accidently threw mine away and packed it well in a single box. Leave it to our friends at Fedex to damage the faceplate and power knob. The face plate looked like it had been hacked with an axe a few times. Cost me $50.00 to replace. Oh, what a stupid I am...
Ouch, Rx8man! I hope the buyer is being understanding. It's amazing how much damage can be done by the Fedex and UPS guys. I am going to file a claim with fedex on my preamp, but don't know if they'll pay. I've read some nightmare claim stories here in these threads. I hope UPS will rectify the problem for you and the new owner of your VAC monos.
Sherod, I have been busy at work and have only added another 10 or so hours of listening and burn in. Still the very same reaction and loving the improvements.
Will have more time this weekend. I will let it play 24/7 again starting Friday night.
I think yours is due back today? Let me know your thoughts please.
I would like to know all the "new" changes Joseph performed on my unit. I see Victor says they have some new modifications now and it seems he will make an announcement. Interesting........
Bill, Mt preamp isn't due to arrive until Mon. or Tues. Once I get it hooked up and playing for a day or so, I'll give everyone my impressions. I am curious to see what announcement Victor has to make regarding the upgrades. He and Joseph are at the RMAF now in Denver.
Well I have some additional comments on my updated TP2.0 preamp.This unit is more revealing then ever of the source component and any changes one would make in cabling.
I use a Music Metre Fidelus digital cable because in the past it has outperformed my AH Transparency digital cable in my system. This is no longer true.
The AH digital cable now sounds better in my system. My prior review was based on the Fidelus cable. With the AH digital cable my sytem has all of the positive attributes I pointed out in my initial review. All the same improvements, but there is more now!!
More weight and dimension to the sound. More tube warmth is coming through without any loss of detail or transparency. Music has more body and texture. My goodness all of this mated with the purity on this preamp. Great combo folks! The stage is even larger with greatly improved front to back depth. Bass has more power and impact yet!! Wow!!!!
I am so pleased with the improvements.
The performance of this preamp in one's system will always be outstanding. However understand this, I have found the updated 2.0 more revealing of other components ahead of it. Change a cable and BAM it may float your boat even more! It did for me.
Bill - Thanks for the detailed post. I am glad that you were rewarded so well for taking the chance at upgrade when the original sounds so good. I may well do the same after your experience. I am uncertain what you mean about digital cable. Are you talking about preamp to amp connect or something else, such as I use a 12Is between my Transport and DAC. Joe
Gammajo, I mean the digital cable between the DAC and transport. I am sure the IC between a DAC/CD player and the preamp would also have a huge impact. Any cable or source before the preamp was the nature of my post.
It is always hard to put into numbers or percentages how much better a piece of gear sounds in a system. If I were to try I can say with assurance it is not some small single digit improvement here. It would be in the order of 20-35% better for me.
Bill, I agree with your assessment about the preamp being so revealing. I loved my un-upgraded 2.0 so much that I couldn't imagine it getting much better, but when I put a Fusion Impulse copper/silver foil power cord on it, I was in heaven. If heaven sounds better than this then take me now, dear Lord. (<;
I received my upgraded TP 2.0 prreamp this morning. I just hooked it up into the system and turned it on a few minutes ago. Way too early to give listening impressions as the preamp will probably need a few days to settle in, but initially, the first thing that I noticed is an increase in volume. I am getting the same volume at the 8 o'clock position as I was before at the 10 o'clock position before the upgrade. Did anyone notice this volume increase? I wonder if maybe the gain might be too much. I'll reserve impressions until a few days have passed. I will ask Victor about the gain when he and Joseph return and get re-settled from the RMAF show. I'm sure that they'll need to time to regroup. I do hope that they make some good contacts to help further the growth and expansion of Audio Horizons. I wish only the best for these gentlemen.
Well, I have about 32 hours on my upgraded Tp 2.0 to 2.1 preamp. So far, I'm not too impressed. The sound initially is much louder( more gain) with a larger soundstage and a more up-front presentation. Soundstage does indeed seem to be more 2-dimensional than previously experienced. Transparency seems to be improved with better delineation of detail. You can hear more background information(i.e. handclaps, individual instruments, singers) but my ears are missing some aliveness. The presentation I had previously with the 2.0 version gave me a sound that gave musical instruments and voices a "breath of life" sound that I'm not getting with this new upgrade. Stay tuned for more input after further break in.
Sherod, that is most interesting. I did not notice the same increase in volume as you. For me it was very slight. For me the things you are missing came when I put in a new digital cable. Now I tried the new digital cable after more burn in then yourself. It can be that burn in really helped.
Give it more time to settle in and see what you find around the 50 hour mark. Hope you find it more to your liking as that is the point of the upgrade.
I would like Victor or someone to help us understand what they have found for burn-in time and changes one can expect over that time.
Sherod, I find I am in agreement with your overall comments on the improvements and also what seems to be missing. More burn in gave me back more of the roundness and warmth to the music. However changing the cabling before the pre really made everything come together. I use the same cabling Joseph does - at least I think I do. I use 100% AH Transparency cabling throughout my system including power cords. I think AH uses the same and voices the preamp based on this wire.
These cords have more body and fullness then many others I have owned. The Music Metre Fidelus digital cable I used to use had more detail and a front row seating position. It worked very well with older 2.0 version. However, the more laid back and full sounding AH now works much better in my system. I have all of the fullness and life I used to have plus now I also enjoy the improvements you noted.
Seems to me the updated preamp has changed pretty dramatically and what used to work for cabling in one's system now may not. I know this will mean more time and effort for ideal system matching for some - yikes!!
I am pretty confident my comments are on point and would love to hear comments from Victor or Joseph.
I might have been premature in posting an impression. I just received an e-mail from Victor and since Joseph does extensive mods to the power supply along with the new wiring harness and output caps, Victor told me to hold off for at least 100 hours to make an impression. It just passed the 54 hour mark, so there is a ways to go. I'll be patient and give it more time.
Tvad my audition 2.1 had 50hrs on it according to Victor. There operation is so customer friendly that its a super pleasure to deal with Joseph and Victor at Audio Horizons.
Good idea, Tvad. Maybe Victor will address this in their website or on this thread soon. I had thought that the trial period was 30 days. Maybe that applies to their cables. Victor, it might be time to clarify some issues to eliminate the vagueness of some things.
Bill(Grannyring), I suppose, because of your extreme enthusiasm after just 30 hours for the upgrade, it caused me to wonder after my first 30 hours with the unit. When you mentioned that the preamp is revealing of all the cables preceding it, I would agree, but at the same time, in my opinion, the more revealing the cables, the easier it is to hear the break-in of the preamp. I don't think that my cables are an issue here. I have gone through a gazillion cables these last few years and feel that I have some amazing cabling in my system. If anything, my interconnects are ever-so-slightly on the warm side of neutral, which is preferable to me than on the other side of neutral. After 54 hours, the sound is definitely much better than at the 30 hour mark, however, the overall sound is still lacking in some body and upper extension. Victor told me that this should start to fill in when approaching the 100 hour mark. At this time, there is still a slight homogenization of the sound with a dullness in the palpability of the music. Again, Victor said this is due to the combination of the new wiring harness( In his words, Joseph's new harnesses take "a long time" to break in), the new output caps and the extensive mods to the power supply. I recall my original TP 2.0n version having a much smoother transition in its break in than this upgraded version. At this time, because the sound is improving, I will give it the benefit of the doubt and let it go through its 100 hour or so period. I am leaving my preamp on 24/7 and only listen to music when I get home from work for 4 or 5 hours. I hate leaving my preamp on continously because it is reducing the lifespan of my precious Siemens CCa tubes. Oh, the life of the continuously upgrading audio hobbiest. If only I could leave well enough alone sometimes.
"Oh, the life of the continuously upgrading audio hobbiest. If only I could leave well enough alone sometimes." Sherod if this is not the audio truth i dont know what is. I think its the explorer in guys that drives us to this end. On the CCAs i understand your concern, with the cost of those tubes. Am i correct 10 thousand hrs for a NOS CCA, thats a long time. Mine came today but i wasnt home to sign for them. Tomorrow i will be finding out what the CCA magic is all about. Your quote above qualifies, the siemens that Joseph supplies with 2.1 are sounding very good. but i have to explore. I love this hobby and quest for the best sound i can afford. If you chime in Victor how did it go at RMAF.
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