Are you Guys Rich or What!?

I think less than 10 people have heard my system thus far (including family). It's in its own room in the basement, not on diplay in the living room..and there is only one decent chair in the room. Most folks have no clue what is costs, and I don't tell them. What matters is the music.

I think building up to a wworld class system over time is the way to go. I'm more or less in my fourth system since my graduate school years (11 yrs ago). I started out with a reasonable mid fi sstem (Denon/JBL), them upgrade the speakers, then the pre amp, etc, etc. One step at a time..and Audiogon. I guess my system now would run over $ 45 retail..but the only items I bought new were the REL sub, the Solidsteel stand and the Linn LP12 front end..though I bought the latter in Euroep as I was moving to the US. The rest were either second hand or store demos. Yes, I make decent money. No, I wouldn't go out and splurge on the latest, flavour of the day interconnects for $ 2000, or change my CD player as frequently as my underwear. At some point you do reach diminishing returns.. and the most important thing (the room) is the toughest one to upgrade.

Well, Bmpnyc did somewhat imply that the trickle down effect was at work here, but I think you're short-changing much of his point by highlighting that. To basically say that, with discretionary purchases, we each have different points at which we feel the purchase is unwarranted, and that this point varies with the person, their conditions, and the specific purchase would suffice, IMO. To bring morality into the conversation (at a specific price point no less) is certain to draw a rebuttal saying, "I'd spend that much and I'm not immoral".

Just out of curiousity, if it's not "right" to buy a $100K system (for whatever reason), is it wrong to sell somebody a $100K system for the same basic reasons? If people feel guilty for indulging in something that is clearly a luxury, is there any sense of guilt by the people who facilitated it's existence?

To answer the original post, I'm not rich, though I do work in a Wall-Street related position. I definitely spend more on A/V gear based on having more discretionary money than I did in the past. I love the hobby, but am probably not as fanatical as many who post here, and definitely haven't made as many sacrifices as have been described here. By being interested in the hobby I have, as others have suggested, put together a system I'm very pleased with for far less than a similar system would have cost had I walked into a high end shop and said, "set me up!". But to me, it's all about prioritization - a high end music system, purchased with care, is a tremendous entertainment value - you can use it 365 days a year, very little maintenance, and highly enjoyable. Many of my friends have boats, more exotic vacations, more expensive cars or clothes, whatever - I don't think they're crazy for how they spend their money and I think I've convinced most of them that I'm at least not crazy for spending mine the way I do. In any case, if you're interested in getting to that next level of audio nirvana and not spending an arm and a leg, there are many on this site who'd be happy to offer their advice!

It all "trickles down" hey, Bmpnyc? Well, it's a nice thought anyway, I remember that from the 80's. And to think I was feeling guilty about those Harbeths, too. Thanks man, I think I'll go spend some mo' money.

It is always relative. Anyone who thinks any amount is "too much" is only putting their own bias into their opinion. I have one rich friend who has not one, but two "cost is no object" dream systems, (one for the city and one for the country). They sounds incredible. He also happens to be extremely big hearted and generous with his time and money toward many charities, so why should he deny himself the pleasure of the "best" sound reproduction? Axomoxa, you couldn't be more wrong.

to Axomoxa, I should have added ... although well intentioned. Tubegroover, as I said earlier, we all bring our own biases into this issue. Maybe some rich people are status motivated, but so are many non rich people. In the case of my friend, he is the least pretentious person I know. Must someone always do what you think is "better" to gain approval? Unless you were in a position to have whatever you want, and do whatever you want it is very hard to be sure what you might do or think in that situation. Some of the best products in history are now considered works of art. Tiffany and Ferrari are two examples which come to mind. Also, at one time a "millionaire" was a big deal, now it is a "billionaire". To some, $75,000 is not that much money. It is a lot to me, but I would certainly spend that much or more on a home theater/audio system if I had the means. That would not make me one bit less of a "good" person, just a good person with a great stereo.

I seem to remember a great line from Bruce Springsteen, "all that heaven will allow". More money simply allows you to do more for everyone, including yourself. Spending money is always good for the economy. Behind every high end product is a store owner, a salesman, a stock person, a delivery person, an equipment manufacturer, the providers of raw material for the manufacturers, employees with family to support, and on and on. A high end purchase can be a very positive thing for many people. If it makes you feel guilty, maybe you might widen your perspective a bit?

to Axomoxa, I should have added ... although well intentioned. Tubegroover, as I said earlier, we all bring our own biases into this issue. Maybe some rich people are status motivated, but so are many non rich people. In the case of my friend, he is the least pretentious person I know. Must someone always do what you think is "better" to gain approval? Unless you were in a position to have whatever you want, and do whatever you want it is very hard to be sure what you might do or think in that situation. Some of the best products in history are now considered works of art. Tiffany and Ferrari are two examples which come to mind. Also, at one time a "millionaire" was a big deal, now it is a "billionaire". To some, $75,000 is not that much money. It is a lot to me, but I would certainly spend that much or more on a home theater/audio system if I had the means. That would not make me one bit less of a "good" person, just a good person with a great stereo.

The views of onhwy61, joe_b, and sgmlaw indeed reflect the wisdom derived from long experience in this hobby. One CAN put together a very enjoyable, "musical" audio system these days for only a few thousand dollars. In fact, it's easier than ever before, because of the large number of small-scale yet high-quality manufacturers, and the ability to learn about them via the internet and numerous audiophile publications. One suggestion I have is to search for any local "out-of-the-home" (but authorized) dealers, i.e., individuals who often offer very good price-to-performance on audio gear, which they have personally selected to compete with big retail stores selling overpriced Krell, Levinson, etc. It's generally a more pleasant experience, and you can often borrow some equipment to try in your home.

To Pls1 and Mikem referencing Axomoxa comments on moral issues. Morality is in the eyes of the beholder. I would have a quite difficult time justifying spending 75K-100K on an audio system just because I am a consenting adult that could afford it. I would feel quite unconfortable in the knowledge that there are better things to be done with such wealth. And not only that but such strastospherically (long green fittingly deserves long words) priced gear can't be rationalized to me as better so much as conspicuous consumption, read status motivated. Such products are geared at the irrational non-sensibilities of those that can afford it. To each his own. Now if we were talking about a one of a kind work of art.......hmmm

Ours is a hobby of diminishing returns past a certain point. While you could spend tens of thousands in the pursuit of audio perfection, the wise application of but a thousand dollars can create a very musical system capable of much that audiophila is all about. It's really all a question of degree. Spend what you wish or can afford and enjoy the music.

It is always relative. Anyone who thinks any amount is "too much" is only putting their own bias into their opinion. I have one rich friend who has not one, but two "cost is no object" dream systems, (one for the city and one for the country). They sounds incredible. He also happens to be extremely big hearted and generous with his time and money toward many charities, so why should he deny himself the pleasure of the "best" sound reproduction? Axomoxa, you couldn't be more wrong.

Everthing about the high end is totally insane as far as the prices go. Markups are ridiculous and nothing ever sounds the best but be careful because once you enter the zone you will be hooked in the fantasy of trying to recreate musical instruments costing a few hundred bucks into your living room with this equipment that can cost thousands. If you break down the lists of parts to make any of this stuff it will drive you crazy on what you are charged - just remember to not forget about the music because we all started at Radio Shack and seemed to enjoy the software no matter what woofers and cones it was coming out from. Good luck and happy spending!

I set goals for myself and chip away at it as I go. I picked a certain level of equipment and saved up for one piece at a time. I worked all the overtime I could and went to a shop that allowed record long layaways. It took a year to pay off my speakers and five years after I started I almost have completed my intial goal. When Im done Ill start to upgrade. I think its fun and although my priorities arent always the greatest I could have spent my money on worst things.

Craig, you have obviously gone to the Dark Side. [:)]

Not rich either! Who said "....obsessions make good servants but poor masters"? I'm a consenting adult too and agree with Plsl and Mikeam above. No need for guilt trips here. Cheers. Craig

Plsl, you lucky dog. Does your bride have any sisters? [:)]Also...sorry boys and girls, but Axomoxa has brought into this discussion the concept of material wealth vs. spiritual wealth. This concept has been addressed by every major world religion, and the timeless truth is that real happiness is derived not from "things" but in your relationship with the Holy, yourself, and those around you. I have to admit, though, that I will be very happy when my new Harbeth C7 monitors finally come in.[:)] Charlie

I am as poor as they come.I have built my system a little at a time over the last 4 years.I have always loved music but had mass market junk,and I mean the worst of the worst!! A friend forgot a Stereophile here on day and I loved the pictures of tube amps,turntables,speakers etc.I went to a couple high-end shops for a real look at this stuff and was hooked on the sound quality right away.I bought some Paradigm Titans for around $200 to start my upgrade.The shop had a 1 year 100% trade up policy and over the course of 3 years moved up to the Reference 80's,I couldnt have afforded the 80's all at once so slowly I got the speakers I wanted.Around the time I got the Titans I saw a ad in a local paper for a tube amp for sale.I had never heard of the name of it but I got lucky as it turned out to be a Dynaco ST-70. At the time I bought it I only knew it was tubes and thats all I cared about.I paid $150 for a nice shape Dyna then slowly added some NOS tubes,better filter caps,heavier cord.A friend gave me a Hafler 945 preamp and I bought a used Denon CDP and some PBJ's and I was in business.Then I caught the vinyl bug after I bought a $2.00 TT at a yard sale and it killed my Denon.I started out with a Music Hall then a Ariston RD-80 and finally a Rega P-25.I traded in the Hafler for a Rogue 99 and I was doing some serious cooking then.I bought some HT pro-Silways and I thought I was done.Nope,next a got a great deal on a Pass Aleph-3 so I had to grab it before someone else did.My system retails for around $11,000.00 right now but with shopping around,buying some things demo or used and finding a great dealer I have only paid about $5000.00 for what I have.I have had to be patient to get what I wanted.I also drive a 8 year old car and and Im a bit in debt.from my stereo upgrades.I still need to get some better speaker cables,a conditioner,better cartridge and amp stand. Besides the uprades I bought a wet-vac,fluids,accoustic treatments on and on.But a little at a time and smart shopping is where its at for we poor folks.I think now my stereo has gone above the level of my speakers.Time to start over??

It's not always how much you spend, but how you spend it that counts. By paying proper attention to component interface and balancing out the strengths of one component against another, I believe it is possible to assemble a system where the sum of the musical enjoyment exceeds the value of the parts. It is possible to assemble a system for $7,500 or less that will outperform much more expensive ones, if the money is spent carefully. Hanging around this website is a good way to learn (and get some good deals).

I agree with Plsl.

To Axomoxa: If consenting adults without children earn their money legaly how they choose to spend it is hardly a moral issue.

Thomas, listen to Onhwy61. 7500.00 is probably more than enough to spend on a system. I am at about 4500.00 and still upgrading. 7500.00 is my limit. I would not spend more if I had it. 50-100K systems are in my opinion morally incorrect. It is one thing to quest for the absolute sound and quite another it indulge in greed and obsesiveness for any hobby. I say hobby, because that is exactly what it is. If you think that 50-100k is going to get you spiritual enlightenment, good luck! I say you are most likely to find happiness, enjoyment, fulfillment, pleasure and all the other reasons for this hobby, by giving your 50-100K system to someone in need. They could then sell it at 1/2 price (if it's actually worth that much) to pay for their shelter, food, and clothes. The down side of this hobby is those that take a good thing too far. 50-100K in audio becomes not a hobby but an obsession. This would be a reasonable thing if you were an audio professional, either sales, recording, musician, etc. But for the average or even above average, it's just plain stupid. Remember this is just one person's opinion. Some might think my 7500 budget is out of hand. I guess it's all how you look at it.

While it is possible to spend $100k plus on a statement type system, it is possible to obtain a truly great sounding system for $7,500 MSRP. It is my opinion that most gainfully employed people over the age of 25 can afford to spend this amount if they so choose.

Well 'crazy' is just someones opinion.My opinion counts for more,as should everyone's. Pis1- A marriage made in heaven;as good as it gets!!You are blessed.How can you not get behind anyone with the same priorities.More beans,anyone??

My wife and I share an insane passion for music. I'm sure that there are others on this site who are equally crazy but here is our short story. When we got out of graduate school we got very good paying jobs. (we both have technical degress and MBA's). For the first few years we were spending 50-60% of our income on equipment, media, live music and books about music. Literally, we ate a lot of macroni and cheese and Japanese noodles. Fortunately we had subsidized employee cafeterias! Our budgets are driven from music first, retirement second, then make due on what's left over. As our career's developed our peer's were driving big BMW's and we had ONE eight year old car. We used to bet that the value of our car plus our stereo was more than that sum for our peers and we always won. We lived in a cheap loft in a dubious neighborhood for 14 years because the sound was so good and any house we could buy didn't have an equivalent listening room. When we could afford to move we looked at 500+ houses until we found one with a better listening room. We had the room evaluated by an audio engineer as a contigency inspection. We are now quite senior in our fields with high pressure jobs that we couldn't manage without retreating to our listing room or going to a concert. Last week was live opera on Wednesday and from Friday night - Saturday night was a Bruckner fest with our musical friends, two performances each of symphonies 4 through nine. Our business associates have always thought that we are crazy and still do.

Hang around this site and you can get your hands on some pretty expensive gear (retail that is) for most times less than half the dealer asking price. I definately believe in allowing others to pay for depreciation. Regards, Mike