Chungted, I have had the NWO2.5 for a couple of months now and I would agree 200% with your comment. Buy the best source first and then work back towards the speakers. Only then can you know for sure how up to snuff the rest of your gear really is. For example, my Dynaudio Temptation speakers are now at a completely different level of performance with the NWO2.5 as souce.
I would go one step further though and say get Alex's unshielded minimalistic silver core cables because they allow the full performance of the NWO2.5 to be communicated downstream through the amp and speakers. Once you have a source as magnificent as this you should want to extract every ounce of its performance and his cables do this. However, if your source (or amp or pre-amp) have deficiencies than his cables are probably not the right move as they will highlight the brightness, edginess, grain, etc. like a spotlight.
Audiosu 12-25-06 My sincere suggestion to you: Upgrade to NWO-2.5 first before spending money in amplifier and speakers. Use NWO, which is a recognized SOTA source, as base to see if further upgrading is necessary and appropriate.
Apologies to all. I misread "euphonic" as "euphoric". And my point was that I think the APL products are accurate and neutral while being musically convincing and, yes, euphonic.
Drubin, Mmakshak's Denon 3910 is the all-solid state entry level APL player with the original PCM1796 Burr-Brown DACs. It has re-designed output stage with MOSFET output buffers. So, no AKM DACs, no Upsampler, no Tubes. It really sounds very good at its price point, IMO. On a scale from 1 to 10, if this Denon is 1, the AKM tubed version is 5-6 and the NWO-2.5 is at least 12. :-)
I just thought of something tonight. When I first listened to Alex's system, I told Alex that I got unusually high from it, and that it lasted about an hour. At home, I was listening to analog only, and my system didn't affect me that way. I asked Alex what I could do to my system to try to duplicate that. He said to buy one of his cd players. Well, the other night I was listening to Ori's(Oritek Audio)modded Zhalou DAC(which is excellent), and I remarked that my APL 3910 sounded more euphonic than the Zhalou. I could be wrong, but I think that might be what separates Alex's players from other players.
Hrrrumpf! Such blatent attempts to jocularity at the expense of my exalted person may necessitate live audio seminars offered by my A-Capella-sized cousins from some lessthan-savory corners of North America. . . to assist with fixin' the respect thing real good and real friendly like. . . ya capisce!
LOL, Brainwater. I may have to go to RMAF next year to see the replay ;~) Guido is indeed well respected, but if I remember correctly, dimming the lights was not necessary. Am I right, Guido?
Raincheck it is Guido. For those of you who are not familiar with Guido allow me this observation . I learned quickly who he was in Denver although I knew " Of " him through Alex and some others on the Gon . Things were quite intense for the most part for 3 entire days at RMAF. Intense became a near panic when someone claimed "Guido is coming to our room ". { The stress in his voice reminded me of my own mouth uttering the words ..." say what ? " when I discovered what a prostate exam consisted of at 30.} I asked , why the fuss over Guido , is he coming to give us "an offer we couldn't refuse? " .... help us with our "sleeping arrangements with the fishes".... or what ?? Guido sounds scary enough but to see the room in a hysterical mêlée was quite the experience indeed.
I stood back in utter amusement as one member effortlessly slid across the floor on their knees perching inches away from the NWO 2.5 ejecting the cd tray as another had already selected the perfect disc for playback. Another dimmed the lights to the perfect level ... laugh , I dare you . The handoff was liquid smooth and within a nano second Ella was in the room. To see this was to understand the level he had ascended to in our community . For me ... it was as if I were John Hurt in Broadcast News witnessing the intensity of his first day on the job. The door opened and .......................................................Guido stepped in . Silence was exploding in the room . A vacuum if you will as no one was breathing obviously.
His ease with himself was all to evident and the moment will be frozen in time for me.
Hi Brent, would love to fly to CES. Unfortunately it does not seem to be in the cards. I have all intentions to return to AudioFest in 07 though. . . may I take a raincheck?
Do not worry Mak, there is wonderful equipment at all price points, and Alex has an excellent name throughout the range! As for me, unfortunately for the next two years I won't likely purchase any major new equipment. . . my better half has shut down the tap. . . there is just a very thin trickle flowing for some new software. . . In a couple of years I will likely upgrade my amplifiers, or perhaps my speakers.
Guidocorona, you know that I won't be spending that much. I have to applaud what Alex has done with his APL 3910. It's actually unbelievable. Unfortunately, I can't translate it into an actual product. My best guess, is to get one of his 3910's or upgrade to the 3930. Hell, you have to ask Alex. Before you go to AKM dac's, or tubes, you should look into this. This is, a for sure, conduit into music. I'm not kidding here.
I enjoy, what has been stated about the 2.5. Can you guys give me a price on this? I just want to say that my 3910 from him(compared to analog, and designed with analog in mind), blows away my analog($10,000 in 1992). I may hsve actually heard it! I don't know what is going on, but I love music!
I have APL 3910, It is the best player I have ever had and heard. I am in Beijing, China. I am so happy that I won't upgrade to NWO 2.5 until I upgrade my amplifer and speakers to the $20K+ top highend first.
Thank you all for the nice words and continued support! The NWO-2.5 player is something that Ive developed with lots of love and best sound possible in mind. The extremely positive feedback the NWO series have received and the fact that there are none available on the used market speaks volumes and is my best Christmas present ever. Thanks again!
Steve, good to talk with you. Thanks again for your endorsement of Alex and his work. You did not lead me astray! Have a great holiday season yourself my friend and shoot me that info on your speakers and cables when you get a chance!
Earflappin, WOW, I just saw your pre-amp up for sale, congrat's, The NWO is truely amazing, and I am still waiting impatiently for mine to arrive. I am so happy you are please with my suggestion. Alex truely is one of a kind, in his approach to digital(digivinyl)as I refer to it.
David, Have a Merry Christmas, and Happy New Year....and please, call me when you have a chance
I now have just over 100 hours of burn in time on my new NWO 2.5 and thought I would post a quick update.
The improvements have been gradual, continuous and significant. The sound has become increasingly fluid and detailed. Subtle ambient cues and microdetails have emerged on recordings with which I am very familiar...almost spooky.
After 30 plus hours of listening, several aspects of the unit's performance have begun to standout that set the NWO 2.5 apart from any other source I have heard in my system or elsewhere (shows, dealers, friends' systems, etc.). Here they are in no particular order:
(1) The depth with which one can listen into the soundstage...you hear the faintest, slightest details; like a triangle being struck in the back of the orchestra after a very dynamic passage.
(2) No listening fatigue even on RBCD. After listening to the NWO 2.5 you understand how many artifacts lesser players introduce into the music in terms of veils, time smearing, etc.
(3) Linearity across the entire spectrum...no portion of the spectrum sounds like is being over or under emphasized. I think this is one of the reasons the unit is not fatiguing to listen to.
(4) Low end and high end resolution and extension is amazing. I am hearing fast, tight low bass information on recordings where I never realized it existed as well as extended highs.
(5) Ability to drive the amplifier directly with absolutely no issues.
(6) The way you just find yourself listening to the music and not listening to your system trying to analyze if everything is as it should be.
Bottom line, the NWO 2.5 just sounds like music. It certainly does not sound like any digital player I have ever heard.
That's it for now...gotta go wrap some presents or my wife may make my NWO 2.5 disappear...:-)
Thanks Frank! I am currently bypassing the darTZeel pre-amp as the NWO 2.5 has a built in volume control, although I will go back and verify my initial findings by reconnecting to the darTZeel pre-amp.
I spec'ed my NWO 2.5 with RCA outputs, although the way the output stage is designed there shouldn't be a XLR vs RCA performance difference. As you know, the dart gear is RCA-centric so that's why I went that way.
I was thinking the same thing about the shoot out! BTW, what power cords and interconnect cables are you using and do you have a set of RCA's or are you going XLR from the CDSA SE into the dart pre?
Great post Earflappin! Just curious, are you using the DarTZeel preamp and bypassing that? Are you runing the 2.5 balanced into the Dart? Looking forward to more comments! You may have to bring the APL NWO 2.5 with you if you stop by and we'll have a little shootout against the Emm CDSA SE. What do you think?
I just got my NWO 2.5 on Friday. Right out of the cold box it sounded wicked good. I first connected it to my pre-amp and said wow, this sounds really impressive. Then I connected it directly to my darTZeel amp. My jaw hit the floor. Once you take this step there is NO going back. Everything is better going direct to the amp, in a big, big way. Fortunately for me I don't have other sources to worry about.
I bought this unit without hearing it. I now have only 30 hours on my 2.5 and it not only lives up to all of the raves on this and the APL Hi-Fi forum....it exceeds it by a wide margin. This is the real deal. This is the "Digital Neo" we audiophiles have been waiting for.
First, you simply cannot believe how good RBCD sounds on this unit. Who would have thought it possible. DVD-A takes digital playback to a strata that I'm not sure even the best turntables can better. And even if they can, the margin will likely be very small indeed and they will have to be optimally set-up, vinyl cleaned and without scratches, etc. Note (!), this is only conjecture on my point as I have not yet had the chance to put the 2.5 up against SOTA vinyl yet, but I do know that a poster on the APL Forum has made this comparison against a $65K vinyl rig and the 2.5 came out victorious. I must admit when I first read his post I rolled my eyes...not anymore I can tell you.
I am observing a steady improvement in resolution, extension and micro detail as the unit burns in and I've been told that at 100 hours the 2.5 shifts to another gear...I simply can't wait for that to occur.
The way Alex P (the designer, resident genius, nice guy and passionate audiophile behind the NWO 2.5) has integrated control of the volume, digital filtering and S/PDIF digital input is clean and very clever.
I cannot more highly recommend this unit and will post a more substantive review after I get more hours on it. From a full disclosure stand point I have no commercial associations or interest whatsoever in APL Hi-Fi. I'm just an ecstatic customer.
They correlate with the stunning sound that is unfolding with only 65 hours of burn-in time on my NWO. I can't wait to hear it when it's burnt-in with the recommended 200-300 hours and when my primary amp is back in the system.
As an aside, does anyone know how to improve cd's that have digitalitis? Is it even possible? What caused it? It seems to me that it eliminates almost all cd's until about 1995. I do believe(without a lot of experimentation) that analog to cd sounds inferior to the analog itself(pre-1982).
Smilin, Yes I did get my NWO-2.5 recently. But shortly before its arrival, one of the monoblocks of my venerable Jadis JA80 amps had to be shipped off to New York for repairs. So, I'm burning in my NWO using the solid state amp that normally drives the subwoofer. You got to have pity on a tube man like me:-) I can't wait for the NWO to burn-in so I could check out what it's made of. Hopefully, by the time I return from my holiday trip to California my Jadis will be back. I'll definitely give you my impressions of the NWO. Best, John
Following up on a thread titled 'Reference DACs', how would owners of the NWO-2.5 characterize the player on the scale of #1 to #2 sound?
I don't own the player, but I've heard it on three occasions, for maybe an hour each time, playing a wide range of music: Rachmaninov, Diana Krall, Pink Floyd, Dire Straits, Nick Drake, and some avant-garde jazz (Banyan, Nels Cline, Tuatara, Steven Bernstein), etc. In my opinion, the player balances the best of both types of sound. It is extended top to bottom, with by far the most tuneful and resolved bass I've ever heard, confidently detailed (though neither crystalline or lush), with tonal reproduction and true-to-life palpability that will make you forget you're listening to an audio system. It just sounds like music, absent a designer's signature.
Fjn04, there is no difference between RCA and XLR with APL products because of transformer coupled output of the tube stage (no capacitors). If you enjoy the resolution of balanced designs, you may want to consider the new NWO-M1 which, unlike the older single ended APL3910 (no longer offered), is employing fully differential configuration.
It didnt make sense to start a new APL thread because I thought I could most likely get my feedback right here. I am interested in one of the modified players which I may run along side my AA Capitole SE for now. I contacted Dan Wright and he promptly let me know his current Flagship 9100ES is currently not available with balanced outputs. I just invested in a new Siltech SQ 110 series 2 XLR cable which I would really like to have use of for the CD player that I may eventually keep. Since this 1.5 meter run of SQ110 cost almost as much as the 9100ES, I would like to use it but didnt realize I may have just been better off buying this run of cable RCA/RCA. Live and learn I guess. Is this guy gonna get to the point or what? I am interested in one of the APL players, and would like to stay in the 5-8k price range. I was not able to get any pricing on APL, but have yet to e-mail them. Which APL offering may be good enough to outperform the Capitole hands down. Also , is there any general feelings on XLR vs RCA for the APL.
HI Steve- Appeared to me, my friend, hat Jmpwme's post was in the spirit of gentle ribbing from an kindred spirit. Spin a few silver disks and enjoy what you've got.
Time will tell, my friends, time will tell. I know of nobody more obsessed with creating the finest digital playback on an hourly, daily, weekly, monthly, yearly pace, as ALEX. He puts it ALL out, and the owner gets to hear it.JMO.
All I know is that I have owned over 50 high end digital players, when I receive my NWO, I am DONE, SMILING, HAPPY< and content. End of journey. Thanks be to god.
With all this discussion of the number of different versions of the APL Denon 3910 there are out there, I think we should keep in mind that this indirectly illustrates one of the main advantages of doing business with APL. Alex's strategy has from the beginning been to keep making improvements to his basic design and offering them incrementally to his past customers who are willing to return their CDPs for upgrade. He even has located a vendor who makes a hardened case to facilate the shipping. In my mind, this incremental strategy is far preferable to the typical manufacture's strategy of designed obsolesence followed by new box replacement. Certainly, Alex's strategy has kept UPS busy shipping my Denon 3910 back and forth (five times by my count), but preserving my investment, while still being able to take advantage of new technology and component design, is by far a higher priority.
From a personal point of view, I own one of Alex's first APL Denon 3910s. (I owned the APL SACD 1000 prior to that). And I have upgraded it every time Alex made a new improvement available. Most important to me was the last upgrade. This involved the addition of the linear power supply similar to that available in his Exoteric-based models. This was by far the single most dramatic enhancement to date. The result was so hugh that Alex renamed the upgraded Denon, the NWO 0.5. I know that Alex had only a limited set of parts available for this upgrade, and may not be accepting customers any more, but it illustrates how Alex's design strategy continues to evolve, all the way up to the state-of-the-art NWO 2.5 (for my money the best CDP currently available in the market at any price). For those who want additional information, I suggest you checkout the review I posted on Alex's web site. The link is as follows:
Mmakshak: Having had both the Crystal DACs and the AKM DAC's - (probably about revision 7 on the "Rainwater scale"), my experience has been that after they break in, the AKM's are significantly, noticeably better on well-recorded music. More detail, slightly greater range and a more pleasing presentation. As far as poorly-recorded music, "garbage-in" is still going to result in "garbage-out" IMHO, no matter what player you use. The AKMs are just more revealing and I am definitely glad I did the upgrade.
Oh my goodness! I understand from my reading that the AKM Dac's were better than my Burr-Brown, but my player sounds fantastic! What I'm wondering is, will the better player(i.e., AKM's) make poorer recordings sound slightly better, or, just in comparison, the good recordings sound obviously better with the better player(i.e., AKM Dac's). In the latter case, it might not be quite as important-you know what I mean?
Aolmrd1241, we are talking about Printed Circuit Board versions of the DAC, not modification versions. Each of the DAC PCB versions was designed in order to accommodate new technologies available for improved digital signal processing. All APL products using tube output are completely re-engineered digital players from the power supply to the outputs using just the transport and the enclosure from the stock player. The original circuits are completely removed or bypassed.
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