Anyone have the Answer?


I am trying to learn how to measure my ac lines to see if they need
conditioning or Regeneration. 

Now it seems to me a person would want to know how bad an issue
they have before tossing out $3-7k for a machine to fix it.

I have asked this question on several forums and so far no one has ventured an answer.

Or are we as consumers supposed to just accept an issue exists and buy the product?



chorus

Showing 5 responses by millercarbon

scott22-
OK time for a new guy with limited audio knowledge to ask a stupid question or two to try to get some elementary understanding as I am obviously missing something.
if you turn up the volume to the max while not playing music and hear nothing -0- from your speakers I would think you do not have a noise problem. Further, when playing music at various volumes and you hear no noise I would think you do not have a noise problem. I say this as I just did it and that’s what I heard lol. So given the above how does the electrical noise negatively affect the sound if you can’t hear it? What is it affecting negatively, the dynamic range, imaging, soundstage, etc.? What’s the science say.

Right. You will never hear the AC line noise I am talking about, not like you think, not at any volume. It is not noise like record groove, or hiss or white noise. You will only hear it at all if it is super bad, like static from flourescent lights or an appliance or something.

The vast majority of AC line noise is not like that. Some of it, a lot of it probably, is RF riding on the AC. RF is everywhere, and every wire is an antenna. Also everything connected to the power grid is connected to every other thing. Electric motors mostly, but everything else as well to some extent, generates a sort of reflected wave called back EMF. The combined upshot of all of this is a lot of low amplitude high frequency distortion riding on the 60Hz sine wave.

Also there is this thing called micro-arcing. No connection is perfect. On a micro scale it is craggy, with microscopic arcs sparking across the gaps. We want a smooth steady flow but instead we get all this static type flow.

If you were to zoom in on this with a scope or something you would see all this as tiny squiggles riding on the huge 120V wave. Running a direct line eliminates a lot of micro-arcing. It also eliminates a lot of opportunities for RF getting in.

Every power supply has the job of converting AC to DC. They all do this with diodes, caps, and transformers. The goal is to produce perfectly flat even and steady AC current and voltage regardless of the demands of the music. Because otherwise, if the power supply wavers at all this fluctuation will wind up in the signal. No power supply is perfect. Whatever imperfections are in the incoming AC, some of that will make it through even the best power supply and into the music.

This is the noise we are talking about, and this is the reason things like a dedicated line, power cords, and conditioners can make so much improvement. It affects all of those things you are asking about- imaging, dynamics, etc. 

If you want to hear for yourself what I’m talking about, simply go flip off all the breakers except for the system. You will hear a big jump in clarity and detail, with a much lower noise floor. This is because cutting the breakers disconnected all those wires that were antennas bringing RFI into the system.

See guys, it is easy to get a sincere answer- simply ask a sincere question. Don’t make up no fake crap about how you been asking everywhere and nobody even tried to answer.
What I been saying for years, the single most cost-effective power improvement is to replace the standard outlet to outlet circuit with a dedicated line. The details of wire, gauge, etc are very minor compared to this one thing.
Preach it Brother Carbon.. LOL You've pointed out the demon, and it seemed to need an exorcism.. Be gone. or is the A Gone..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0ZS9sImoOE

These two had it easy, only the one demon at a time.
Yeah well they maybe didn't think it through very well then. Using a meter merely removes the decision making one step. You still have to decide what meter, what to measure, and why? Usually the reason we measure is to get better sound. Unless of course the whole point is to sit in the sweet spot looking at your scope and printouts? 

Well then if you listen, who cares what the measurements say? The consensus of the "thoughtful answers" seems to be measure something, buy something based on the measurements, and then if it turns out bad send it back.  

How is the OP supposed to know if it turns out bad? Is he gonna measure it? Or listen to it?  

So for all the "thoughtfulness" it never seems to have occurred to anyone all they are doing is moving the decision one step down the road. Kicking the can.

Of a guy who started out from the very beginning telling us he has been can-kicking at forums across the land. 

That is the result of genuine thoughtfulness. Unless you meant I should be thoughtful not of the question but of the questioners feelings. Well, again, he came here telling us up front he'e never been satisfied with any of the answers he's gotten anywhere else. Tantamount to telling us he is just going to waste our time. So why should I be overly concerned with his feelings?

No wait actually its worse than that. What he actually said was, 
I have asked this question on several forums and so far no one has ventured an answer.

No one has even tried to answer? Seriously? Say again, bad faith question. Got the answer it deserves. Ask a good question, get a good answer. 
I am trying to learn how to measure my ac lines to see if they need
conditioning or Regeneration.

Now it seems to me a person would want to know how bad an issue
they have before tossing out $3-7k for a machine to fix it.

I have asked this question on several forums and so far no one has ventured an answer.

Or are we as consumers supposed to just accept an issue exists and buy the product?

Right, we as consumers are supposed to consume. Duh. By definition.

Was there some other question you had? Anything related to audio? Not that I can’t help. My knowledge base is encyclopedic. But the better the question the better the answer. You asked an unserious question. That is, one inclined more to make a point than evoke information.

Okay so we get it. You made your point. You think the whole thing is bunk. Fine. So, what’s your question?