Anybody use a single ended component with one that is balanced?

@steakster If you are talking about at the input of the amp, I think so.

I’m not an electrical engineer but a lot of amps have the balanced outputs at plus 3db. Not sure why or how, perhaps to compensate for long cable runs that the balanced lines are designed for, but it’s a fact of life and sometimes needs to be addressed.

They do, probably because the amp is employing different circuitry for the balanced input. There should be no losses on any long balanced line cable you could run in a home environment. I've run them 300 feet with no losses when recording, and that's with a microphone signal.

In addition to the Townshend Allegri I also just ordered a Townsend Audio full loom and in discussions with Max Townshend about IC connectors, he told me that RCA’s are better than XLR’s. Max went on to explain single ended connection is more pure and true to the signal as a balanced connections goes through extra circuitry and should be avoided if possible, except for long runs of cable.

@vinylshadow This statement is really problematic. So much depends on how the 'circuitry' mentioned is designed! If fully differential, even though there are about 50% more parts, its entirely possible that the signal is going through less stages of gain. For example the phono section in our preamps has only 2 stages of gain but works with LOMC cartridges- with passive EQ (which causes signal loss). Quite often a single-ended circuit will need 3 stages of gain to do the same thing.

The Ampex 351 tape electronics were used to record the lion's share of classical recordings here in the US during the golden age of stereo- 1958 to about 1962. The circuit is almost entirely single-ended except for the input and output transformers, without which the recordings would have been impossible due to the length of cables involved. What Mr. Townsend is essentially saying is that almost all recordings would be better if single-ended?? That clearly is false- it was balanced line connections that ushered in the age of hifi. The primary reason single-ended connections are used in home audio comes from the 1950s when the hifi industry was really getting started. The RCA connection was inexpensive and no-one at the time saw a need for longer cables (or even high quality cables for that matter) in the home. It was adapted purely out of cost.

But high end audio isn't about cost, its about building the best equipment one knows how to do, to get as close to the musical performance as humanly possible- its a very different goal. In that context balanced operation makes a lot of sense, and once you've heard balanced set up properly, there's no going back to single-ended.

There is a standard for balanced operation (linked earlier by @ieales in this thread) called AES48. Most of the balanced gear offered in high end audio does not support this standard. Its a real shame, because when the standard is supported you get benefits- no ground loops, good cable artifact immunity, lower distortion (due to cancellation) as well as less noise that can be impinged on the interconnect cables (and equipment). As a result, you get this on-going debate about which is better, which wouldn't happen if AES48 were supported. What I've not sorted out is why most of high end doesn't support the standard- whether they are ignorant of it or simply chose to ignore it. When its ignored, sometimes Mr. Townsend's comments you paraphrased are correct and sometimes not- hence the debate.

Balanced pre & amp will provide 6db additional gain and reject noise.

@sbank

If the balanced line standard is being observed, this should not happen!

Yes, balanced is a bit louder… one small turn of the volume control, no difference in character or ability to play more loudly.

If operating balanced and the volume winds up being higher, its a sign that the equipment does not support the balanced standard.

The reason this is so is because in a balanced system, the signal is generated without respect to ground; ground is just there for shielding and nothing else, quite unlike a single ended (RCA connection. But how many high end audio preamps do it is they have two single-ended outputs, one being out of phase with the other and both referencing ground to complete their independent circuits. So when you use a preamp like that single-ended and then go to balanced, you double the voltage being fed to the amp.

If OTOH the preamp is supporting the balanced standard, the output of the amplifier will not change because going from single-ended to balanced will result in exactly the same amount of voltage fed to the amp.

Two advantages of the balanced line system is freedom from ground loops since ground is ignored, and a lack of artifact (the ’sound’) of interconnect cables- they will be more neutral. Both of these aspects are lost if the preamp references ground to do its job.