David,
Thinking further about it, the fact that your using def 4s makes a bit of sense in your preferences. I have a set of those nanotech drivers for my def 2s and as impressive as theyare, they are a good bit more neutral in presentation and I can.see that extra sweetness of the AMR making a nice synergy.
Beyond that the DACs presentations were more similar then different, don't mistake me for saying the AMR is a poor performer. |
I'm not denying the AMR is a Swiss Army Knife.Its features are wowonderful and the interconnects, powercords and extra bixes it makes unnecessay makes it a good value if you our these things to use as you obviously do.
For those of us that use it solely as a DAC, however, I think similar or even better results can be had cheaper. I won't name people, but I've spoken privately with a handful of former AMR owners who reported similar findings with less expensive competition. In fairness one of then hated the Metrum Hex but still slightly preferred a DAC in the sub $1500 range that even did DSD.
Look, I'm not suggesting the Octave is better, but if your needs are limited to a dac, you are still paying for the unused features so it has to be compared MSRP for MSRP.
As a compliment to AMR, I significantly preferred it to the LampizatOr I previously owned, which was beautiful and seductive, but so colored and romanticized as to play a large role in dictating what I listen to.
Oh and for the record we compared both DACs with the LampizatOr Transport and a Bolder Cable Co Modified Squeezebox Touch with Deluxe power supply and Music Rail upgrades . |
same here!
Yesterday I compared the Pre section against my Pass XP10 preamp. After two hours I was so happy to switch back to the AMR. This piece is a game changer in my System (Pass XA30.5, Dynaudio Special25).
I paid 3k Euros for it (ex demo)and I don't think that there is anything close to it in that price range.
So in my opinion it is not overpriced but a bargain. |
Gopher,
I have been fortunate enough to hear the Metrum Octave and AMR on the Def 4's ( in different systems). The Octave is a nice dac at its price point but suffers the same tonal leanness and digital signature that every SS dac at that price point that i have heard suffers from. In my opinion it would hard to find a linestage at $5k that could beat the AMR so it is anything but overpriced. To me it is one of the greatest bargains in dacs(again my opinion, not stating as fact). I was impressed enough to have purchase an all AMR system after living with the dac for a year. I'm not saying this to sway people toward the AMR. I am simply rebutting your opinion that the dac is overpriced...I literally can not think of another dac I would trade it for. I would hate for someone to not demo the product for themself based on your comments. Different systems, interconnects, room acoustics, amps, and speakers will all influence the perception of the dac. In my system, it is stellar and I believe it has that potential in others systems. Your bad experience with the product does not make the product bad or overpriced. Again, I am not looking to inflame of be cantankerous...just a believer that in my system, that dac is the cats meow and believe there are others that will feel the same way. |
Kzhloo,
The importer of lampizator, Ming, had his own passion project which was a USB only DAV that was out of this world good, but it was still a prototype when I heard it and msrp should be like $6k+ ouch!
David,
Which part do you disagree with? I've directly compared them as did a proud (at the time) amr owner who ended up kicking his to the curb in favor of the ~$1k DAC. Its nice, but not worth the asking price. Fwiw I compares it on Daedalus Ulysses speakers with a Shindo Aregies and Tube guru d2a amps and my own Zu Def 2s with a Melody AN211. Two pretty resolving systems which consistent results.
Do you disagree with my findings or with my general feelings that its over rated? |
The linestage is absolutely excellent and I would suspect it would be a close race (assuming you don't need extra gain) and would likely make you consider letting the XP-10 go but there is only one way to know. If you happen to go down that route, I would love to find out your thoughts on a head to head comparison. |
Schw06, how's the line stage on DP-777? I currently have Pass XP-10 line stage and wondering if DP-777 can replace XP-10 + Metrum. Most DACs that come with volume control are digital, unlike DP-777. |
Gopher,
I love the TWL PC's for some things but definitely not all. Once I took the TWL cord off the AMR and put on a HiDiamond Power3 cord the AMR came to life even more. It was a sleepy lil thing with the cords I think you use. But with a more suitable PC, it 'woke up!'
FWIW I also tried it with a Sablon Gran Corona PC but the HD3 is what really worked for it.
The difference here IME was not small. Added texture, bass and openness...
I understand your "preference" but do not see this unit getting any unnecessary or exaggerated "hype" like you say it is. Just this thread of happy owners. different flavors for different systems.
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Gopher (Fred) is a great guy but I will have to disagree about the DP-777. I ended up purchasing one just over 1 year ago so I feel like I have a handle on it at this point(I'm the original poster of this thread). My opinion is not worth any more than Fred's but I would highly recommend an audition for yourself. I hate when people spew hyperbole about a product so I won't. I will say, however, that I haven't had a single thought in the last year about dacs and can't think of a single thing it is missing that I desire (well maybe DSD).It is unfailingly musical, has an outstanding linestage, and incredible functionality. I've loved the dac so much I've purchased the 777 integrated amp, phono preamp, 2 AMR power cords, and numerous AMR fuses. To make a hot dog analogy, AMR is "all meat and no fillers" in my opinion. |
So Gopher, in your opinion, which dac would be an upgrade from Metrum Octave? I currently have Metrum and looking to make a change. I do not need a lot of features (volumn control, USB in, etc) as long as there's a couple of SPDIF ins and RCA outs (XLR would be nice but not required). |
My honest opinion of the AMR after four listening sessions with it, including one in my own system, is that is is way overrated. Its not bad, and its features are great, but I actually PREFERRED the Metrum Octave, as did my buddy the AMR owner who sold his and bought a stock Metrum, chuckling all the way to the bank.
Lots of hype, but it is NOT special, IMO. The met rum had better weight, texture and impact.... the amr may have had better air less PRaT, though it was admittedly a splash sweeter. |
I have owned the 777 for over half year. I have tried tube rolling, different BNC to RCA adapters....the improvement is just not significant. Two months ago, I replaced one of the BNC inputs with RCA(Cardas Rhodium) connector. The result is more focus, sweeter, more detail, more transparent.... Then I went further and replaced the plastic XLR output connectors with the much robust metal Neutric ones. The outcome has even more impact in the sonic improvement than the digital BNC input replacement. This killer combination of these two little mods is so significant that it bring its performance to a whole NEW level. IMHO it is a MUST for all the 777 owners. Enjoy! |
Drubin,
Thanks -- I try to be. In my younger years I used to enjoy baseball, football, hockey and many other sports. |
You're a good sport, Sabai. |
Drubin,
I fully expected a similar response, of course. |
>The DP-777 is a truly great DAC. I just put mine up for sale on Audiogon.
Classic !!! |
The DP-777 is a truly great DAC. I just put mine up for sale on Audiogon. I am selling to upgrade to the one-box CD-77. The AMR family is amazing. |
Anyone own the AMR 77 cd player? |
I wrote in my previous msg
" I found that the DP777 now had the body and fullness without the slight opaqueness (or heat) engendered by the Ayon CD5s.
"
I meant to write
" I found that the DP777 now had the body and fullness without the slight opaqueness (AND heat) engendered by the Ayon CD5s." |
OK, so my AMR DP777 has had the Duelund VSF Black Cast Caps installed by the importer about 5 months ago. At this point I can report that it is a worthy upgrade. The sound is slightly more refined. Not earth shattering as the unit was already amongst the best I have ever heard but they did add a touch more (or should I say less between the performer and listener). Yes they are expensive but we all know how that last 5 or 2% in high-end always ALWAYS costs more money.
The real shocker was the built in volume control (attenuator). This is not related to the caps, but rather purely time. I own and use the Music First Audio Ref and Baby Ref TVC Attenuators, and I love those units. They are simply the finest attenuators I have ever laid ears on. Consequently I have been slow, VERY VERY VERY slow to break in the analog volume control on the DP777. I always thought it was spectacularly transparent.., as transparent (and I mean this) at controlling the volume as is Pure Musics 64 bit digital volume system (which handily whipped the Allnic L3000 which formerly took up residence in my home). But I felt that in the areas of body and fullness it lacked a little and this is where I felt the built in volume control of the Ayon CD5s beat the DP777.
Well, it looks like that was my fault as I broke it in over spurts here and there by mainly bypassing the internal volume control and using my TVC's. Now that the internal volume control has approx 1000 hours on it the story is quite different. The incredible transparency is still there in spades but now it is accompanied by real body and fullness and with just a hint of sweetness. It is not euphonic or colored, but it is full and supremely musical. At this point I would say it beats the Ayon CD5s internal preamp. If you remember my former posts I thought the Ayon CD5s sounded best with my MFA Ref AND the Halcyonics Silencer. The DP777 does sound better with the MFA Ref as well, but as it has run in I found that the Silencer became a hindrance (thus I sold both of them) and I found that the DP777 now had the body and fullness without the slight opaqueness (or heat) engendered by the Ayon CD5s.
The AMR DP777 once fully broken in and that means the line-stage as well will simply beat (badly I might add) most standalone active preamps I have been privy to.., that's a lot of preamps.
This is really cool, it is becoming less expensive all the time to enjoy really really world class audio w/o taking a second mortgage on your home.
Regards... |
For anyone who may be interested in a near-mint DP-777, I may be upgrading to the CD-77 soon. |
Audiofun, what type & value r the stock caps? Heard one last nite 4 the first time. Very nice. Based on what people r saying here about break in time & the sound I heard, Cutf - Vcaps perhaps? I've had those & the Cast Duelands in a preamp, both r very good, the Cast do everything better... |
Sabai, sorry I am just now looking at this. I get busy with work and actually listening to music LOL and I sometime disappear off the forum for a while. I had my DP 777 upgraded to Deulend VSF Black Cast Caps on the output. Very expensive and very much worth it. |
Sabai, Vince of AMR emailed me this morning asking about it, and I immediately replied that it works fine into the MA-1s here, which enabled him to quickly respond.
Good luck and listening. |
Audiofun,
I received a lightning fast reply from Vince at AMR today, Saturday. I am apparently in the clear.
As usual, AMR delivers exemplary customer service. Theirs is among the best I have experienced in the world of high end audio -- which matches the quality of their products in my system. |
Audiofun,
I have emailed AMR about this but I don't expect a reply before next week. Perhaps you have some experience here.
I am currently using the R1 input on my DP-777 with a 110-ohm XLR cable. I am using the PWT PerfectWave transport. Although I can step-down the volume I have to use the volume control on my integrated amplifier to reach a maximum level of volume from which to step down using the DP-777 remote. I am getting the Atma-Sphere S-30 tube power amplifier to replace my integrated amplifier. Will I be able to use the volume control on the DP-777 using the R1 input? |
Abruce,
I haven't swapped in any new tubes yet. I am waiting till my DP-777 is fully broken in. I am at about 380 hours. In another 120 hours, once everything opens up, I will have a good basis for comparison when I start to swap. |
Sabai
How's those new tubes working |
Yo2tup,
Most welcome. I'd be very interested to know what Amperex tubes you swapped in to replace the stock AMR tubes. |
Hey Audioezra, you said "I have owned the 1st msb modified magnavov player by Mark S Brassfield."
I had one of these also! I had my Magnavox (565? no remote...)
player modded by Mark back in 1987 and first saw the promise of digital. I remember Stereophile wrote a good review (but rated it class C, which caused some controversy. It had lots on nice deep warm bass and pleasant highs and upper mids.
Well now I have an EMM XDS1, but I look fondly back to the MS Brassfield player. This I think is the first mention of I've seen in 20 years. |
Thanks Sabai. I was able to do this and swapped the output tubes for some NOS Amperex tubes, and what significant difference it makes in terms of space, detail, and imaging! Reviews of the DP-777 say its a DAC for people that enjoy musicality and less concerned with details. After swapping the output tubes, it retains the musicality and adds the delicate details! |
Yo2tup,
If you Google the manual you will see the diagrams included. It is easy to do -- just do steps one and 2 for replacing tubes. The only hitch is that you need the exact tools for removal. I found that anything smaller or bigger will not allow you to do the job. If you have one of those small tool sets you should be fine. |
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Does anyone know how to remove the top cover so you can access the tubes? |
I am using ps audio ac-12 to great effect. |
The cord is very important here. AMR has a cord that I will be trying out soon. You might want to try HiDiamond. I have their top PC in series with an SR Hologram D. |
Has any other tried out different power cords with the 777? What is everyone using? |
Not long ago, I auditioned all the new kids on the block. Fully burnt AMR777, Berkley Alpha 2, Weiss 202, PS PWD 2, EMM MA-1 and the Audio Horizons 3.1Sv. Plus some other older and established models.
The result, I just sold my $24k analogue kit, it finally happened, digital equalled and/or bettered my vinyl. I kept the Audio Horizons 3.1Sv, without doubt the most analogue sounding of them all, the others cannot match the musicality, depth and natural separation. If you are looking for a new dac and have the dough, you are committing a serious mistake if you dont audition the Audio Horizons, I believe I have never heard a better dac at any price. |
Grateful
Sorry - been off line for a bit.
I run the aurender aes to amr. By far the superior method - imho
I am very happy with the aurender. My goal was to have the best sounding music server with a very intuitive interface. I am lucky to live near a dealer who carries both aurender and amr.
I have only listened to the aurender and amr together, so hard to determine which "link" is stronger. I do believe the aurender is incredibly capable at doing what a great music server should do - send bits to a dac w/out any jitter and serve up an interface that lets me slide from tune to tune with ease and allow me to rediscover music long lost in the cd stack.
The amr and aurender together are by far the best sounding front end I have ever had. |
Just got mine last Friday and it sounds pretty good out of the box. Left it on overnight and this morning it sounds totally different for the better! Waiting for the 500 hours mark......So far its performance well exceeded my expectation! |
My 500 hours was indeed a rollercoaster ride! At the time of my question above I had a strange screech/pop from my amp at shut-down. So I waited a few mins and powered back up to insure everything was fine and the sound was flat, brittle, no bass. The amp is fine now and it was unrelated to the AMR but confused my perception through the break-in for a good few days...
I have passed 500 hours but the unit is not quite to the magic of my demo experience. if memory serves, my dealer has had his unit since last Nov. or so. And Audiofun pointed to his 800 hour mark. So I must assume that FULL break-in happens around the 800+ (1000?) hour point.
Fine by me! It is very good at this 500 hour point and since I know I heard it even better, there must be more glory to come!
Here are a few of my thoughts during my demo that sent to a few friends. Nothing that really has not already been said though...
This DAC is exquisite! I find it silky and smooth yet robust at the same time. It is punchy when needed and delicate when needed -- it seems to embrace the intended nuances of the recording. It is very natural and organic sounding by nature. Not overly detailed, but all the right detail in all the right places. It just sounds 'real'... Furthermore its soundstage is what I have always wanted! It is larger than I have ever had . It is taller than ever, with great dimensionality. Sounds seem to radiate from all sides of the Ulysses, with music stretching and growing from even the far back corners of the speakers. Sounds will place themselves in space and then bloom and grow in any direction --but all in a very natural and real way.
Tone, timber, natural detail, sound-staging to die for is all there in this unit. At least for me.
It is hard to put this into words, since the unit just sounds so right and natural. Nothing out of place, nothing to little or to much. Just right.
If I was to try to pick it apart... A detail hound may want more. A hound for dynamics and immediacy, may want a more 'PA system/concert like' presentation. Basically, if someone is looking for something in-particular to be slightly exaggerated, they wont find it here. |
Expect a lot of up-n-down before 500 hour mark. If you power it down and up again, give it at least 30 min to get back on the road. |
Breaking-in a DP-777 now... How wild of a ride is it? Say around the 255 to 275+ hours mark???
I may have an unrelated issue but hard to tell since Im in the middle of the break-in with this unit.
I have listened periodically and it seemed to really be shaping up but I dont recall it sounding this way even out of the box.
Did any of you experience a big dip somewhere near this point???
In one power down for a few mins it went from getting close to that magic I heard from a fully broken-in unit to a lil bass shy, flat soundstage and bright sounding/upper mid glair. Just plain askew and a lil out of balance. Some parts of the sound still seem relatively fine, others not.
Like I said, I may have another issue but hard to tell while in a break-in process, so figured I would check... |
Dangelod,
I am interested in hearing your listening impressions and review of the Aurender S-10, would you please comment or start a new thread? |
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Abruce,
Right out of the box the musical landscape is stunning in comparison with Berkeley and EMM CDSA SE. There is a realness to the sound -- tonality, detail, sound stage. This is hard to put into words. The sound simply exudes a sense of continuity and realness. One is not focusing on elements while listening. The music is just flowing naturally with nothing in excess and nothing missing. If you have recent experience with other DACs and then listen to the AMR the difference is startling. The AMR is a superior DAC in my system and IMO. |
Sabai
For those who may be interested in pursuing the AMR, can give some details, on how it blows other dacs away
Thanks |
Audiofun and Audioezra,
I think some of the other DAC manufacturers should be shaking. The AMR is stunning. I have less than 100 hours on mine and it clearly blows away 2 tops DACs that I used to own -- and others I have auditioned.
Are you using the AMR's volume control? |
Hi fellow a'goner's. I seldom write about equipment but, I must speak concerning the AMR DP 777 which I own. After 35 years in high end and 30 years in digital, I think that I may know a bit. I have own the 1st msb modified magnavov player by Mark S Brassfield, the man himself. the 1st Wadia super dac, the 2000, resolution audio, wadia 9series, esoteric po3 series/ p01-d01 vu with rubidium clock, early Stahl-tek, Latest Concert Fidelity, Ps audio pwd/pwt, Lector, remyo, and countless others, I find the AMR DP777 to be one of the finest dac's that I have ever heard at any price.For some to disparage such a fine company and it's ability is to me unacceptable.You must hear this dac with your own ears. one of the great and well known reviewers came to hear it in my music room, and when the session was over, was so impressed that he offered to by it. AMR is a world leader in high end audio. I call the AMR dp777, WORLD CLASS. Happy listening to all. |
