@erik_squires  I often read to hastily & miss detail.

I was back into your blog and rereading some more, and after clicking on links that took me to Amazon, I note that the PST-8D at MD has a couple of digital outlets (obviously to put a CD/SACD player in a different zone than the clean stuff?) versus the PST-8 at Amazon.

I am with Matthew, above, and I wrote about it, below.  Personally I believe that a good power conditioner can be better than dedicated lines:

@erik_squires  , well, the dedicated line is now in existence so I may as well use it, but I do need additional outlets.  The Furman PST-8 is within my budget. . . .

I suppose I was concerned that a budget product might actually degrade the situation. . . .

@jgoldrick  , for now I can live with only adding more outlets.  Were you able to use all three of the audioquest's outlets?  I take it you noted no perceptible degradation by using it?  And lastly, what are you using for a power cord to connect it to the wall?

@immatthewj 

I found out that three dedicated lines was another mistake I made. 

Not really... If the correct type of branch circuit wiring is used, and the correct method of installing the branch circuit wiring is used.

I have two dedicated 20 amp branch circuits that are 75ft each. I used 10/2 NM sheathed cable, (Romex Trade name). Both circuits are fed from breakers on the same Line, leg. I use one for front end digital equipment and the other for analog. My system is dead quiet. Theory for keeping digital equipment fed off a different circuit than analog is  to decouple the power supplies from one another. 

 

MD sells the Furman PST-*D Power Station (8 outlets) for $269 + tax which is withing my range, but it says to use only on 15A circuits

Where did you read that?

This?

• Maximum Current Rating15 (Amps)

That means the maximum FLA of the "power Station" not the branch circuit rating. You can plug it into a 15A (Duplex) or a 20A outlet that is feed from a 20 amp branch circuit.

@jea48  thank you for clarifying the current rating.  For me, electricity is an abstract subject . . . I know how to remove & replace but I don't understand how it works.

On the multiple vs 1 dedicated lines, on the previous thread on the topic, I read that the RFI introduced from multiple dedicated lines for the same system would come from the neutral bar?  I will need to go back & reread that.

My three dedicate lines for my system that I have been referring to are now direct from outlet(s) to panel, on the same leg, they are about 35 (+ or -) feet long, brand new 12-2, 20A outlet and 20 amp breaker. (Which was clarified by, I believe, you and others, on a previous-previous dedicated line thread. 

Those 3 lines are not nearly as well segregated as how you described to me, off line, that yours are.  I can fix that at the panel, but in the attic and in the wall it would/will be some major rework. 

@erik_squires  I have been reading &rereading through your blog, and thank you for providing it, as I am finding it informative.

Forgive me for some of the stupid questions I am probably goingto ask.

I will start with this one

From your blog:

Furman as having the least expensive and most feature packed, which is why as a starter solution I strongly recommend Furman PST-8 with LiFT and SMP as the best. The $180 power strip includes this and is also great add-on to fancier units. While it is a great unit it only has a single zone, so you want to keep noise sources outside of it if you use only one. 

Previous to that is a diagram showing DAC, pre, amp, & TT as being in the "clean zone."  A streamer and Blue Ray are shown in the "dirty zone."  My only source is the Marantz SA10 SACD player.  I don't understand streaming, & really have no wish to, but I understood when I bought it, that if I ever wanted to stream (which I won't) the SA10 is compatible with streaming.  (I guess that refers to the SA10's DAC?)  Does this put the SA10 in the "clean zone"?  Meaning I would only need one PST-8 if I went that way?

Thanks again for the blog.

MD sells the Furman PST-*D Power Station (8 outlets) for $269 + tax which is withing my range, but it says to use only on 15A circuits

Where did you read that?

@jea48  , on page 3 of the instruction manual (pdf) is where it says to connect it to a 15A outlet. 

"4. The PST-8 should only be connected to a 120 VAC, 60Hz, 15
amp grounded electrical outlet."

Thanks, @jea48 , as I previously typed: electrical is a weak subject for me.

After that first of about three ’dedicated circuit’ threads, one of the things I THOUGHT I came away with was that a 20A breaker meant a 20A circuit & needed a 20A outlet (along with a minimum of 12-2 in between). I do remember stating that I had THOUGHT that I was legitimate with a 15A breaker protecting 12-2 wired to a 20A outlet (which I thought was even safer, as a 15A breaker should trip even earlier), and it finally being beat into my thick head that the 15A breaker meant a 15A circuit, regardless of what size wire, so the outlet should be 15A as well for legal reasons. With that typed, I was ASSUMING that a 20A breaker should not only be in front of, at minimum, 12 gauge wire, but also a 20A breaker.

Regardless, thank you for clarifying that for me.

@erik_squires   thanks for getting back to me.  Only 4 things will be on these/this circuit(s).  My SA10 SACD player, my pre, my amp and my powered sub.  So going by your above post, nothing really needs to be segregated from anything else?  And I did go to the link you had for surge protection . . . my memory gets shorter every day, but I believe that was the Tripp Lite?

With that typed, I was ASSUMING that a 20A breaker should not only be in front of, at minimum, 12 gauge wire, but also a 20A breaker.

@jea48 thanks for getting back to me. The above was a bit of a typo that I can no longer correct on the post it was posted to, I meant that I was ASSUMING that a 20A breaker should be in front of 12 gauge wireand a 20A outlet.  But I'll leave that alone for now.

The duplex receptacle came from Lowes and were therefore nothing special.

Cover plate is plastic.

I installed the breakers myself and I put them on the leg the window AC and the drier and the kitchen is not on. 

I JUST NOW went to my panel to refresh my memory.  On the leg that I put those THREE DEDICATED LINES on, there are only three other breakers.  Two of them (and this may be confusing) are for TWO OF THE THREE dedicated lines I put in 25 years ago.  I have been up in the attic working with them and they are now going to be three dedicated lines in my living room.  Meaning they will basically not be used for anything or be used infrequently.  So I don't see a problem with them, and, as a matter of fact, when I finally finish up in the attic and hook them up to their three breakers, I can turn them 'off' and they will definitely be out of the picture.  There is one other breaker on that leg, and I just turned it 'off' and did a walk through, and for the life of  me, I canot find anything that isn't working!  And this is a small house!  So I am leaving 'off' as well (unless I accidentally figure out what it powers) , and it should be out of the picture.

I was thinking about putting them at the bottom of that leg, and now I don't know why I didn't.  I think I left myself enough Romex available in the attic that I can move them down and block off those openings in the panel.  But now, after that last paragraph I just inserted, I am thinking that I probably don't need to?

I can check voltage with a MM, anyway.  I am assuming to select AC volts on the MM for that.

I have one more session up in the attic (I keep saying 'just one more) (this is NOT a fun attic to work in) and then some rerouting at the panel itself, and then I can put my listening room back together (the panel actually resides in that room and I am also using that room as a staging area of sorts for all the work I am doing, therefore crap is all over the place in there) and then I can start listening, as you suggest, and try to make some determinations.

Thanks again for getting back to me, you are always most helpful.

@jea48 thank you for the added input. A couple of things with a question(s) added:

About my breaker arrangement on my panel:

I typoed again in previous post. There now are FIVE breakers on the leg I used for the 3 circuits I just added.

From the top working down

1) I discovered what the unknown breaker was for. The washing machine. Which I assume is a pretty hefty draw? However, I am relatively confident that the machine is usually not in use when I am listening. So that should be good?

2) In my previous post, I said "TWO of the three original dedicated circuit breakers were on that leg"; in reality, only ONE of those breakers is on that side, and when I finally reach completion up in the attic it will be very rarely in use. So that should be good? If not, I can turn that and the washing machine breaker off when listening.)

3, 4, and 5 are my for the new and truly dedicated lines that I ran directly from my outlets, up the wall, across a section of the attic, and down into the panel.

Besides the sub-questions I raised above, 1) would you say that what I have described make that a pretty good leg? 2) Especially if I turn those other two breakers on the leg to ’off" when listening? 3) And is there any need to do that if those circuits are not being used when listening? 4)And would there now be a need to move my three new breakers down?

(I guess that was more than one question.)

On the outlets: thanks for providing that, and I actually did buy some of that brand at Lowes.. I know because I have a n extra one. The back strap is magnetic. However, I also have them mixed & matched with another brand Lowes sells (I don’t have the box on that one), and it has a magnetic back strap as well. I am pretty sure that they are different brands as there are small differences in their construction. I can easily go to Lowes & finish up this job by buying all one brand.

Anyway, thank you for your helpful input.

@ditusa thank you for that. There is a Fastenal store close to where I live that theoretically sells them.

@dodgealum don’t worry about a hijack (which it is not); I have had most of my questions mostly answered. But this type of thread seems to run it’s course fairly quickly & you may not get any more answers on this one. If you scroll down to probably withing the last couple of weeks or so, there are about three more dedicated circuit threads and I remember that they dealt with setting up a new listening room and you may find answers to some of your questions there. I’d post links, but it will be super simple to find them by just scrolling, as they are relatively recent.

And if you don’t find answers there, I think a new thread will yield better results than asking on this thread. (Not that I mind at all if you do, just trying to be helpful.)

@apogeum  , thank you for that input. 

I am just about finished up. I did didn't do anything at all yesterday or Sunday, but I am just about ready to get up in the attic and wallow in the insulation and finish that part up.  I want to reroute some stuff at my electrical panel and then I will put the listening room back together

and then I will try it both ways.

Ground loops only occur if there is actual ground current, even if the grounds themselves are less than ideal, so this is not always a given.

@erik_squires  , could you expound on that for me (as I am somewhat electronically illiterate)?  By that, do you mean if something is causing current to return to the neutral bar via the bare ground wire (the 3rd wire)?  

Ideally the connection of all the power plugs would be in a star ground configuration (analog and digital gear connected to separate isolated power outlets of the power conditioner) . Power strips  is the next best to star ground.

@apogeum , meaning on one circuit?

@cakyol , well, as I started this thread by typing, I originally did this 25 years ago before I had a PC and the internet, so I am sure that I probably read something in Stereophile about a dedicated circuit (or maybe more than one) for the gear, and with this, as with everything else in my world, I thought that if one is good more was better.

At the time I had a pair of ARC mono blocks, my pre, three pieces of digital separates, and a powered sub. This has changed, and I now am running a two channel Cary amp, a pre, a Maranzt SA10 as my digital source, and the same powered sub.

In this thread I posted I have read both sides of this coin, and I guess by flipping a couple of breakers to ’off’, I have the option of experimenting & trying it both ways. I pretty much finished up in the attic today, and tomorrow I have a couple of things to change around at the panel, and then I will start testing some stuff out.

I appreciate your interset & I thank you for your input.

An audible ground loop happens when you have two or more paths to ground that are of different potential (voltage).

@cleeds  , what would cause that?