Analogue Productions SACDs

@richardbrand The source material matters, but if the equipment isn't up to the task of extracting the information from the media, the sound quality isn't going to be as good as it could be with a high quality external (or internal) DAC converting the digital to analog.  

I have many SACDs and if I play the SACD in my Oppo player and the sound from the internal DAC in the Oppo is clearly worse than if I play the red book version from the same SACD disc in the CD player in my Rockna server through my Rockna DAC. 

Just as there's a very noticeable difference if I play the same SACD using the Oppo internal DAC or send the DSD stream to the Rockna DAC.  

It's like saying that if you play a MOFI or UHQR or other high fidelity vinyl record on a $300 turntable with a built in phono stage, that it's going to sound better than a "standard" pressing of the same record on a $5000 turntable with a $5000 cartridge and a high quality phono stage.

It's very easy to demonstrate and the type of music doesn't matter.  

I honestly wouldn't waste my money on SACDs unless you have a top quality player or a good transport and DAC.  A regular CD in a good player or transport/DAC will sound better than a SACD in an Oppo or entry level player that has SACD capability.  There may be some benefit if they have been remastered and improved.

Later I found out that almost all vinyl over the last 20 years has been digitally mastered anyway.

I think a lot of people don't realize that.  I often question my sanity for continuing to buy vinyl when streaming and CDs sound so good and take up so much less space, especially considering that many vinyl records were recorded and/or mastered digitally. 

There seems to be a lot of issues with quality control in today's vinyl manufacturing process.  Many new records that I buy have issues with surface noise, non-fill, warps, etc.

However, there's something about the ritual of playing vinyl for me that transcends digital playback, so I keep doing it.  When the vinyl is done right, it can sound really spectacular. 

I could not disagree more, if the SACD was originally recorded in multi-channel high resolution and not badly re-mastered. Most classical SACDs have superb sound.

I’m not sure what you're disagreeing with but if you like surround sound, cool. We like what we like. I think it sounds very unnatural and prefer stereo if there is a surround version. 

It should say what is required to play the disc on the back cover of the jewel case, either something like "This product is a Hybrid SACD designed to play in both CD and SACD players, as well as SACD compatible DVD players." (from the back of one of my AP SACDs) or "This disc is designed for use in Super Audio CD players only".  Another clue is to look for the Compact Disc logo.  There should be information on the back of the case in some form describing whether it can play on a CD player or not.

I didn’t realize my $2,000 Oppo 105D was entry level. 

Very much so. The 105D retailed for $1200 and its main purpose was to play blu-ray discs. Jack of all trades, master of none. Not sure why someone would pay $2,000 for one, unless it was FOMO when they were being discontinued.

CD and SACD playback is lackluster using the internal DAC. And no, you don't have to add a zero to get significantly better sound quality, you just need to connect it to a better DAC and use it as a transport. 

@richardbrand I send the DSD 64 data to the Rockna DAC through a HDMI to i2s converter.  They are readily available and inexpensive. 

I'm not saying that the Oppo's internal DAC is "bad", but when you hear the difference with the same DSD file from the SACD being played through the Oppo compared to the Rockna, you can't unhear it.  The Rockna is much more detailed and dynamic, leaving the Oppo a little "flat" sounding. 

On the other hand, a well mastered CD or the Redbook layer from a SACD will sound very close to a SACD and much better than a SACD played through the Oppo.  

You don't have to have a Rockna to be able to discern the difference.  Any decent DAC that can accept i2s input and DSD 64 should provide better sound quality than the Oppo. 

I'm not trying to pick on Oppo, my point is that any universal player like that is built to a price point and by definition is built to do multiple things, so you're not going to get the full enjoyment your digital files can bring.  I thought the Oppo sounded good until I visited a friend who has a Jay's Audio CD transport and DAC (Redbook only) and realized that I was wrong about the possibilities that CDs present.  That led to my experiment of using the Oppo as a transport and taking advantage of the Rockna DAC. 

I can buy used CDs for 3 or 4 bucks at the local record store instead of paying 10 times that for SACDs that don't really sound much (if any) better when played back that way.

@richardbrand In regards to your comments about the DSD conversion, have you heard a Rockna?  There's what you read on the internet, and then there's actual listening experience. 

To be clear, what I've said from the start is that a CD will sound better through a good DAC than a SACD through a not so great DAC.  You like what you like, keep doing what you're doing. 

I come here to learn new things with an open mind and to help when I can, based on my actual experience, not to argue with people about their audio theories.

@richardbrand The OP asked about the ability of a CD player to render SACD information. It won't, but if it's a hybrid disc it will play in any CD player. They don't have an SACD player, so buying SACDs would be wasteful. 

I pointed out a couple of other things that may prevent somebody from wasting their money. The first is that the recording and mastering of the music and the quality of the playback equipment is more important than the media that it's on.

The second is that if someone already has a good CD player, most SACDs include a Redbook layer that is very likely to sound better on a decent CD player or transport and DAC than the SACD layer will on a universal player that supports SACD. 

What helpful and useful information have you contributed?

You repeat without any qualification that the Redbook layer is

very likely to sound better on a decent CD player or transport and DAC than the SACD layer will on a universal player that supports SACD

In my experience that is completely untrue.  My evidence is that I could tell that my Reavon universal player had obvious problems with its TI Burr Brown DACs - it was down converting DSD to CD quality and it was so obvious I wrote to Reavon seeking clarification.  My previous Marantz universal player sounded wonderful on SACD.

The fact that you haven't experienced this with your awesome player designed for "The best possible picture and sound technologies for an incredible home cinema experience" doesn't make it untrue. 

I have experienced it, and what I'm sharing is actual listening experience, not hypothetical ramblings.  

I have heard incredible sounding Redbook CD playback in my system and at least two others (one with Jay's Audio transport/DAC and one with a nice Ayre CD player).  That's not to say that the same disc as an SACD wouldn't sound any better, only that many people are not aware of the potential of CDs to provide excellent sound quality. 

I am primarily a vinyl guy myself, but it's been great to be able to pick up CDs for 3 or 4 bucks and have them sound fantastic.  I also have a relatively small collection of SACDs and some of them are amazing.