Amps/Preamps for Rockport Aviors


Hi everyone, I just ordered new Rockport Avior speakers a couple of weeks ago and they are coming next week.  My current system is: ARC ref 75SE amp; ARC LS 17se pre amp; simaudio 280d dac and network streamer; Feikert turntable, ortofon cardenza bronze cartridge, and a boulder 1008 phone stage. 

I am thinking about upgrading my amp and preamp for the Aviors.  I was looking at the ARC ref 250SE as well as a used Boulder 2060.  For the preamp, not sure, maybe an ARC REF 6 or a used boulder.  Someone also suggested I look at a simaudio evolution 860 or 870.   My one concern with the ARC ref 250SE is whether those amps will pair well with the Rockports or if im better off getting a solid state.  I am not married to either tube or solid state (I had krell a long time ago before the 75SE and bought the 75SE becuase i thought it paired well with my Thiel 3.7's). 

I am brand new to the Avior speakers and looking to get more out of them than my 75se, and would greatly appreciate anyone's views. 

thank you in advance.  Larry
Ag insider logo xs@2xgasherbaum

Showing 4 responses by gpgr4blu

Hi Gasherbaum:
Once again, I'm in a thread that provided an opening for Audio Troy, alias Audiotroll to sell his wares--cite to reviews that agree with him for credibility-- and give his phone number. (He'll say he's just trying to help, but note he is the only dealer on Audiogon that "helps" so openly and brazenly). P. S.-- We can all find a review that raves over any one of dozens of great amps and speakers----that does not make that particular item work for any consumer in any set up.
 If it's a speaker thread---Audiotroll will jump in and push Paradigm. I guess if it's a thread asking for advice on preamps and amps, it's now T & A. Oh well.
My two cents. I have heard T & A gear at Stereo Exchange a number of years ago and the the NY Audio show this past year. It is very very good gear and not as well known here as it should be. In fact, it is pretty awesome and may be great with Rockport and may not be. Like CH Precision, it is bold, with great transparency and detail--not particularly warm which may be perfect for Rockport which are very slightly on the warm side of neutral in my experience. My suggestion is to call the factory and ask which solid state and tube gear are among those you should try. As for solid state, Gryphon would probably be the number one call as that is what the designer (Andy Payor) uses in his listening room. I believe he also has tube gear, but I do not know what brands he prefers. The ARC Ref 250se and VTL S400IIs both appear to have enough juice to do the job. As for other solid state gear, well there are countless greats that you should consider including D'Agostino, Pass, Ayre, Constellation, Soulution,  Classe and yes T & A. But, instead of guessing---call Andy or one of his factory hands for some suggestions on what has worked in their experience. That should help you to focus on a few brands that will be good for your set up. Good luck.  

Audiotroll:
T & A gear is very good stuff. I can assure you that Stereo Exchange carried it, albeit for a brief time, and I found it to be exactly as stated. I would not ascribe a great amount of warmth to it as you do.  I believe Alan Taffel compared it to what is referred to as the "Swiss Sound" like Goldman, Spectral and CH Precision. These are not brands known for a tube-like warmth--nor are they harsh or thin. They are fast and have ultra high bandwidth. Although these amps all have great specs, they are not my personal cup of tea in the amplification department where I strongly prefer tubes and solid state brands like D'Agostino and some Pass as well as some less heralded brands like Wells Audio which do have a degree of warmth and tube liquidity missing in the Swiss group. But that's just my opinion.
Have i read many reviews where the reviewer says that a component can hold its own with gear costing many times its price?---yes many many times. Nevertheless, I will agree it was an excellent review and that T & A makes excellent gear.
My point is not that the OP should not consider T&A for Rockport---it's that you should stop selling your wares here so unashamedly and at every opportunity. You spout certainties that, from a dealer---sounds like a sales job regardless of whether you personally make the sale.
Your opinion that T&A contains the best attributes of Ayre and Pass is just not true IMHO and I can imagine many who would prefer Ayre (especially the new amps) or any number of Pass Labs amps over the T&A gear. Of course, one would not be wrong in preferring the T&A gear over both of those brands as you suggest.
 Finally, I note that some other Goners on other threads are joining in the chorus which again request that you stop selling here. 

Hi Audiotroll:
I did not say I heard the HV series at Stereo Exchange. In fact, it was probably not the HV series as it was before 2014. I did hear the HV Series of T&A at Audio Doctor's room at the NY stereo show last year with Personas and thought the combo was very good as I have said many times before. That is not good enough for you who wants everybody to agree that the Persona high end speakers and T&A amplification are better than all of the competition within earshot at multiples of their respective prices.
 I stand by my opinion as to the character of the sound of T&A which is shared by Alan Taffel who owns CH Precision gear and puts T&A and Spectral in the same category of sound. Indeed, in his Absolute Sound review which you referenced earlier, he compared the sound of his CH Precision  gear to T&A in all aspects and found no discernible difference except in the high end where he preferred CH. If you are as informed as you claim to be, you don't have to be told that CH Precision and Spectral are known as incredibly fast and transparent gear which some listeners love and others think are somewhat sterile. Warm is not part of that vocabulary. If you have heard D'Agostino gear or certain Pass gear, you will know that they have a deserved reputation of being liquid and somewhat tubelike, especially in the midrange. 
I will not engage in a ridiculous contest with you over who has more experience in audio. Nor will I repeat my experiences with your boss as I have done on other threads with you where I go way back to when he was a young hard selling and annoying pup at Sound By Singer.
 Short summary, I follow almost all brands and listen constantly to new products from all corners of the globe and have done so for over 35 years. I have been asked to write reviews of audio equipment for 2 audio publications, but I have chosen not to do so. I have built countless audio systems for friends and clients of my professional company (not audio related) for the sheer enjoyment of doing so. I source my purchases from virtually all dealers in NY and NJ.  I have personally built speakers and an amplifiers. I built my first pair of speakers in 1975 and sold them long ago. 
Frankly, if I were to advise the OP on amplification in the T&A mold, I would suggest that he consider Spectral as I think it is better than either T&A or CH Precision at what those brands purport to do at a fraction of the price. That being said, I believe those companies are all great companies with well made products. They are clearly not exactly the same. Therefore, I would understand and appreciate anyone whose tastes regarding these 3 brands were different than mine. I would not tell them why they are wrong and I am right as you always seem to do with anyone whose opinion differs from yours. Unlike you, however, I am not a dealer or dealer rep and my credibility does not hinge on convincing anyone of anything on this site.  
Hi Gasherbaum. Let us all  know how you make out. That way, we can enjoy vicariously without having to spend our own money.
P.S. despite the fact that specifications may not indicate that the ARC 250se or VTL S400IIs are a perfect match, both of their power supplies are extremely robust so I think you will be surprised at how well they handle your speakers, especially if used in combo with their respective preamps. Lastly, you are in luck to have a dealer that carries D'Agostino, ARC and VTL. While you are testing those 3 brands, try an ARC pre with a Dag amp. That will get you half way between the full tube sound and a hint of tube sound with what some would say is the best of both worlds. The combo is one I heard often (before Dag came out with its preamp) and I can tell you that the ARC/DAG combo is quite synergistic.
I am a huge fan of your speakers and wish you the best of luck.