As usual on this topic, you see people speaking up and comparing amps apples to oranges.
Depending on the efficiency of the speakers one uses, if very efficient, you probably won't need a 200 WPC amp. Then a light 15 WPC clean amp works well and it won't weigh anywhere near what a class A 200 WPC amp would weigh.
no matter how certain people try to get around the fact that electronic equipment is "engineered" and science and technology is absolutely present, they try to make one believe that technology and science aren't a part of it at all. mostly because they don't understand it.
Not taking anything away from Class D amps, if you stick with class A or A/AB amps, you are dealing with linear power supplies , large capacitors, heavy enclosures, heavy heat sinks. most of this is based on the science of power supply design and heat sink design necessary to get rid of unwanted heat from output transistors.
But, if space is an issue and you have efficient speakers, then by-all-means try Class D amps. they are lighter and getting close to well designed class A or A/AB amps. not there yet, in my opinion.
But, not everyone wants really heavy, large amps, so they are opting for lighter amps and more efficient speakers that don't require large output amps.
Well made transformers are not light or inexpensive. high voltage capacitors are not small. large output transistors require sufficient heatsinking.
shortcuts will result in lesser sound quality.
But, it depends on you and what you have (speakers, rooms size) and the sound quality of the music you prefer. Oh, and also, your budget.
enjoy |
I have 2” granite sides and bass plate on my amp. My amp weighs 245 lbs. It’s the best amp ever made, bar NONE! The weight of an amp determines its quality. One of the major criteria all should use!
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wolfie62
I have 2” granite sides and bass plate on my amp. My amp weighs 245 lbs. It’s the best amp ever made, bar NONE! The weight of an amp determines its quality. One of the major criteria all should use! >>>>>That statement is patently false and I can prove it. Isolate any amp, even a very heavy one and it will sound better AND weigh less. It’s pure physics. Case closed. Although there is some advantage to dead mass inertia the whole house is shaking due to seismic type energy and everything in the house is shaking with it. You can’t fool Mother Nature. |
My class D was $90/lb and I can carry it with one arm. Previously I had an 88 lb Pass behemoth which I could boil water on for pasta which I do not miss.
Weight obviously exudes feelings of quality. I remember back in the 90’s I opened up my Pioneer elite CD player to find a metal plate affixed in the middle of the chassis with no other purpose I could think of other than to provide weight, either for vibration control or just to add weight. |
@elliottbnewcombjr .......Toobox safety talk - Don't lift and twist! |
@adurerca ....2 plates in my PD-65 if I remember correctly, intended to isolate the power supplies from the digital stuff. I believe the chassis was copper. The player read the CDs turntable style (upside down) and
visitors would always put them in top-side up and ask, "why doesn't this play?" |
@geoffkait
Isolate any amp, even a very heavy one and it will sound better I have been curious about how my SRA stands work to isolate, damp, or whatever they do for my two new monoblocks. The SRA folks apparently also do work for the defense industry so for them - mum's the word. However, they needed the amplifier's weight, the dimensions of the foot print, and other information about the amps, so they could do their thing and "recalibrate" my stands to match this specific pair of amplifiers (the stands were previously calibrated for their former owner's amplifiers). This "recalibration" was all internal since the stands look identical to when I sent them in to SRA. When I set them up, I was somewhat curious to find that the "legs" of the stands (stainless steel threaded rod) actually attach about halfway up into the depth of the stands, inside of cylindrical pockets accessible from the bottom, and the attachment seems somewhat articulating (by a small amount) so that the legs are not absolutely rigid in the x-y plane but rather seem to allow the platform to have a very small amount of freedom in the x and y directions, but not in the z direction, where maybe the (elastomeric?) internal damping inside of the stand comes into play. Geoff, how many degrees of freedom do you consider your springs have? Typically, a spring is thought to operate in only one degree of freedom, in the case of a vertical spring it would be the z direction. However, depending on the slenderness of the spring (i.e., length vs. diameter), and the weight of the object supported, perhaps a torsional force could allow the spring to rotate. I am curious how the isolation provided by your springs compares to an elastomer type spring such as the Herbies products. While it is fun to think about this stuff, everyone has their own opinion so the best way seems to be to try different products, listen, and keep what you like. I like the SRA stands because they look good and seem to do nothing wrong. BTW, the amps have Stillpoints as footers, which the SRA folks said was basically unnecessary with their stands. |
mitch2
Geoff, how many degrees of freedom do you consider your springs have? Typically, a spring is thought to operate in only one degree of freedom, in the case of a vertical spring it would be the z direction. However, depending on the slenderness of the spring (i.e., length vs. diameter), and the weight of the object supported, perhaps a torsional force could allow the spring to rotate. I am curious how the isolation provided by your springs compares to an elastomer type spring such as the Herbies products.
>>>My springs isolate primarily in the vertical direction 🔝 only, but there can be some rotational 🔄 isolation depending on how the system is set up. But simple springs like mine offer no isolation in the horizontal plane 🔛. That’s why a lot of folks use roller bearings AND springs to get isolation in all six directions or most of them anyway. Springs should be selected based on mass of component and the whole shebang should have a very low resonant frequency, 2 or 3 Hz is very good, below 2 Hz even better as there’s a lot of Earth motion in the range 0-5 Hz. I suspect MOST of the vibration especially for the basement or first floor is in the vertical direction. 🔝 So why pay for a Mercedes when a Volkswagen will suffice?
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@elliot....makes one consider D amps after everything heals...;) |
I own the Anthem STR Integrated and absolutely love it!
Would love to have the STR and matching Pre Amp, but out of my reach.
Gook luck on your search! |
@arcam88
yes after reading and learned more about weight and performance I will go with Anthem STR AMP
i was little bit worry that my current amp A21+ weighs 72 pounds so is kind of downgrade lol
i did have some dealers willing to give me up to 25% off MRSP also option to trade my A21+
my only little concern is there’s no a single bad reviews about it from all the reviewers
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Are you buying new or used? The price range of the 3 you have listed - 5K?
I have had an Anthem integrated. OK for all it offers, including phono. Not heard the others. I have heard some models of Parasound and was not impressed. Your current choices are 1 Anthem integrated (200 wpc), Parasound (400 wpc) and Rotel (500 wpc). Getting the Anthem lets you sell your preamp. MORE than enough power at 200 for your speakers.
I would get a Pass INT-60, XA 30.8 or the XA25. The INT-60, which I have had, lets you sell the preamp, saving you some funds. I have also had the XA30.8. Liked them both. Sold them because I like to try out different things and I am, at heart, a tube lover. Again, more than enough power for your speakers. The XA25 actually puts out a lot more than it is rated.
Looks are fine but this is audio we talking about.
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@rallais
actually the pass INT -60 looks great and gorgeous I wish I knew this before bought my Michi P5 Preamplifier
thanks for the recommendation |
Anthem is a solid company with great customer service 😎 |
Wait. Why has no one discussed how a (vacuum) tube amp falls in a vacuum? 🤔 Would certainly be as relevant as weight to an amp’s performance...
One must first decide what class. Older tech (A, A/B) Is going to weigh geometrically/exponentially more than new tech (D,G,H, Hybrid) by necessity. Anyone who has not auditioned the newest new tech (Ice, Hypex, Hybrid) should not dismiss them based upon “old” new tech class D. They offer very good/great performance, can handle difficult loads with ease and dynamic headroom, and come in an efficient package that can be moved around and placed in tight racks/spaces without hernia or fire risk. Oh, and have correspondingly exponentially greater SAF
Sort of Indycar/Formula1 compared to Hummer/Escalade |
thanks everyone for great response
this is just a small update
Whitecameross got me some really good deal on Anthem STR AMP DEMO UNIT can’t pass
so I have it looks so gorgeous with meter
sound so smooth great bass great details better instrument separation run cool compare to my A21+What blow my mind and surprise me is I have harman Kardon signature 1.5
200 WPC amplifier in my bedroom set up so I decide to try it on my modified KLF 30 and my jaw dropped wow I can’t believe what I’m hearing from that old school amp now I’m on the search for another one to my ears I prefer it better than STR and A21+
All the test was done with Michi P5 and Parasound P6 preamplifier SVS speaker wires and interconnect stock power cords |
