Amp shootout.....Tenor 75wi verses Berning ZH270


in a recent thread there was much discusion of the above 2 amps, whether the Berning was indeed an OTL, and which one might be better.

i have no opinion as to whether the Berning is an OTL. but today a Berning ZH270 owner brought his amp over to compare to my pair of Tenor 75wi's. my system is OTL friendly, with easy to drive speakers, so the Berning's acknowledged advantage in driving difficult loads was neutralized.

these amps have very similar power, the Tenor is 75 watts into 8 ohms, the Berning is 70 watts into 8 ohms. otherwise it is not really a fair comparison....the Tenors are $19900 a pair, the Berning $4500, the Tenors weigh 70 pounds each, the Berning weighs about 10 pounds.....it seems like Goliath verses David. the result is somewhat closer than that.

we played three different discs and each of 3 people listened to their disc in the sweetspot. the Berning owner felt that the Tenor had a more dimentional sound, deeper soundstage but felt the Berning was equal in bass extension and detail retreival. the independent listener felt the Berning was excellent for the money but not in the league of the Tenor in any paramter. my perception was similar to the independent listner; that the Berning, at $4500, is amazing in it's top to bottom excellence, dynamics and musicality.....but....does not do things like the Tenor. the sense of space, detail in the soundstage, texture and microdynamics of the Tenor are at a whole different level.....and they better be for $15000 more.

like the Berning owners, i am a shameless Tenor lover and consider the Tenors better than any other amp i have heard at any price, assuming a reasonably easy load to drive.

the Berning is more like a $8k to $10k amplifier.....and Berning owners should be justifiably proud of their amps.

i did think the Berning had slightly more bass slam than the Tenor, but with much less bass articulation and extension than the Tenor.

we spent the rest of the enjoyable afternoon listening to some great vinyl......an enjoyable time had by all.
mikelavigne

Showing 5 responses by jtinn

Kevin: Mike of course is correct. The Tenor 75 watt amplifiers are $20K, and the 15 watt monos are $15K. What seakers did you compared the amps on?

I have listened to both and while the Lamm ML1's and ML2's are wonderful, the Tenor's go a step further in almost all areas. If I did not have a speaker that was right for an OTL, I would not hesitate in buying the Lamm's.
Allanbhaganinfo: You are talking about apples and oranges. While the Berning amps are quite a value at the 2500-4000 that people are paying for them, they are not comparable with the other amplifiers mentioned. The Tenor amplifiers currently stand alone on top of the market, given the proper speaker. The Lamm's and Atma-sphere are next if more power or a transformer is needed. The Berning's are just a great $4500 amplifier.

We Tenor owners are not confused or questioning our purchase and have nothing to justify to anyone. It is the Berning owners that appear to constantly desire the comparison to justify their purchase.

Just enjoy your amps, they are terrific for the money.
Fatparrot: My statement regarding "power or transformer" when talking about Atma-sphere, should have specified the MA2's for power at 225 watts.

I am enjoying this thread and am excited for all the loyal owners of Berning amplifiers. You own a product that deservedly has your loyalty and the manufacturer should be pleased.
Allanbhaganinfo: I do have to disagree with your statement of "it's easier to build a phenomenal amp at any cost, than to build a great amp at a steal." I think one comes to expect more from an amp with a very high cost and make excuses for amps at a lower cost. "It only costs $4000, what do you expect?" My reference is not intended for any specific amplifier.

The point is an amp that costs $20k or more better sound great. Most often, a high price tag does not necessarily assure good sound, only that it may have been much more expensive to produce.

The Berning amps are quite good for the money as are many other amps in that price range or lower (George Wright's amlifiers for one.) Does this mean that they are comparable with something like the Tenor's, Lamm's or Atma-sphere's? No way!!!

Those out there under the impression they will get the same quality sound if they buy the Berning amps over the top amps costing quite a bit more, should realize that, in this case, you get what you pay for.

By the way, Mike Lavigne's system is the absolute best I have ever heard. I put together the Tenor/Rockport room at CES, that all the reviewers say was the best sound they ever heard, and I tell you, it does not even compare to Mike's system. If you ever happen to get the chance to hear it, your definition of good sound, will change forever.
There is a point of diminishing returns when we talk about high-end audio. One has to spend quite a bit more money to get that last bit of refinement. The Tenor's are MUCH better than the Berning's, given the proper speaker match. The Lamm's are better as well as are all the Atma-sphere's. If the load is REALLY difficult, the transformer on the Berning will help it outperform OTL's in one area, the point where the impedance drops the most. That is all.

I have heard the Berning's and like them quite a bit. I truly think they are a fine product and a real value. I also like the BAT VK-60's which actually go for a lot less money on the used market. I would easily choose the AS M60's over the Berning's if, again the speaker was not a tough load. Some of the lower priced Joule amps are also right in there.

The trick is to put a fine amp in a mediocre system and see what happens, not to put a good amp in an exceptional system. When Michael was waiting for his Exquisites, he could not wait to listen to his Tenor's. He pulled out an old pair of KEF's and was amazed at the sound that he heard. He could not believe his was enjoying the KEF's the way he was. In a system as "dialed in" as Michael's, I doubt any amp would actually sound "bad". I know this kind of cuts at the Berning's, and that is not my real intention. I just think some of the responses in this thread are not very realistic.

For me, this thread is over. Many of you have not read my posts carefully enough. I have stated the same thing many times in this discussion and a few of you hear what you want to hear. Mike was nice enough to have David over so David could hear his amps in his system. David loved it and had the chance to hear a comparison with the Tenor's. He stated that "As one who was there, I would have to say that the difference in sound between the two amps was not subtle - the Tenors were clearly the more satisfying". It is the way it is.

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