That's very good advice, Nedmast. Difficult to follw, though, because when vinyl is at its best, it is very good. Hard not to want to try to whip it into the non-existent perfection. The upgrade path for me will consist of relatively low-cost ones, just to help with the urge to tinker.
Thanks for the input, enjoy,
Dan |
I guess I should re-phrase that previous statement, Piedpiper. I mean I must be close to getting all that my analog front end, such as it is, can give me. That is, however, a very long way from the best the format is capable of delivering, but so are the funds to purchse the means to that end. We do the best with what we have.
Dan |
The output of my XX2MKII is .28mV. My phono stage is capable of 64db of gain. I have tried all the impedence settings, it seems to sound best at the 100 ohm setting.
Since the unit has the gain cell, I used to connect it directly into my power amp, where it had plenty of gain. Going into the passive, I notice no difference in the amount of gain, or the quality of sound.
My digital front end, on the surface, looks mundane, but the entire front-end, Marantz
DV8300, Musical Fidelity A3/24dac, and Genesis Digital Time Lens, have all been heavily modified by David Schulte, and it, at least to my ears, sounds very good indeed.
I have checked and double-checked my arm-cartridge set-up, using two methods, the jig that came with the Scout, and a DB Systems tool. I have adjusted tracking force from 2.0 grams to 1.85 grams, where it sounds best, and adjusted VTA many times to dial in the best-balanced sound. I'm wondering if I've run out of table, or something else. I may try to take it to Tim, at Experience Audio in Seattle, and have him check out my set-up.
Thanks to you all for the input, Dan |
Hmmmm....much food for thought here. I have found a subtle addictive quality about vinyl that digital does not have. However, overall sound quality favors digital, and I agree with you Dan_ed and Dcstep, that much of the problem lies in the recordings themselves. Most of my small vinyl collection was bought on auction here on
A'gon or ebay, some are 180 gr. pressings that are out-standing. I thought I'd get back into vinyl to broaden my ability to collect and listen to music, which it has done, but if you've spoiled yourself with good playback gear, it's hard to settle with just any old sound coming out of those speakers. There seems to be a great disparity between recordings in the vinyl format, not so much with digital, though that is sometimes an issue there, too.
I guess I'll just have to take the good with the bad, though I would not go so far as to say vinyl "smokes" digital. They are different, both enjoyable, though on some recordings, vinyl gives more thrills and chills than digital.
The passive pre is fairly new, an acquisition from back in Oct. '07. I don't have a good active line stage to compare it to at the moment, but my system sounds the best it has yet, even when I had a Bat VK30 w/sixpac upgrade. I'm still in the early learning stages of vinyl, after being out of it for 18 years, so it's fun, and new, and enjoyable.
Thanks to all, and enjoy, and I'm open to more learning on this format. Lots more to know than just sticking in a cd and pushing play on the remote.
Dan |
Hello Dave, and all. I don't think I'm wasting my time with vinyl. I've always had an affinity for turntables. I just got tired of paying good money for a product that sounded like Rice Crispies in a short time. Sometimes right out of the album cover. I've since learned how to better care for my lp's, and with much better gear, and much better set-up (I've since earned about that, too), noise isn't the issue it once was. Most noise is under the playback level, and the occaisional pop is acceptable.
I do have a m/c SACD of Nora Jones' Come Away With Me, maybe I can find an lp of that and make a comparison. I don't currently have any duplicate recordings, but that sounds like a good idea to a/b the two formats. Wish I'd thought of that.
I'm just not hearing the clear superiority that has been claimed for vinyl, but I do enjoy the pursuit (as if I didn't already have enough to spend my money on). I intend to keep on truckin' with vinyl, and see what will come of it.
Thanks all, and enjoy,
Dan
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Eweedhome, I have found both vinyl and digital recordings that I just can't get through. Most of the time, though, I am able to enjoy all my listening sessions equally. My digital gear has greatly improved with the last round of upgrades Dave Schulte performed, making some discs that were once unbearable, now quite enjoyable. For instance, I have a cd of the Brandenburg Concertos that was unbearably bright. Now, it is remarkably vivid. If too bright, using the Time Lens, I can change dither to #2 setting, which is a little less bright, s'posed to be more analog-like they claim.
I too, do most of my listening in the classical vein. At this point, I tend to favor whichever format I'm listening to at the time, since neither one seems to be a disappointment. LP's, though, seem to go from listenable to just outstanding, with a different quality about them that is hard to define, but none-the-less is there.
Thanks for the interest, enjoy,
Dan |
Cable length does not seem to be an issue here. From what I've read, that can be more of an issue with resistor-based passives, but not so much with the transformer-based ones. My i/c's from table to phono pre is 0.50 meter, from phono stage to passive is 1.0 meter, DH Labs Air Matrix Silver, and Synergistic Research Kalidescope X2 Active, respectively. I decided to put my best i/c's in analog front end, after I got the Dyna XX2MKII.
On my last post here, I mentioned the lp of Abeniz'
Suite Espanola. I decided to give it a spin. Since hearing it last, I have done some minor set-up changes in cartridge. Azimuth, VTF, VTA. I was simply astounded at what I heard. This record is a wowser. If all lp's sounded like this, I would have never started this thread. If all lp's were like this, I might have to agree that vinyl is clearly superior to digital. They certainly are not, though. Still not sure I'm getting it all, but I must be getting close.
Thanks, guys, for the continued interest. Still open to good ideas.
Enjoy, Dan |
Since my last post, I have recieved and have been using the Dynavector P-75MKII phono-pre, and have decided it is staying. It is a better match with my cartridge, (the Dyna XX2MKII), has a warmer, more full-bodied sound. Dynamics are superb, detail and resolution better too.
Still not convinced vinyl is superior, though.
Thanks to all,
Dan
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Well, there doesn't seem to be clear-cut answer here, which is understandable, given the many variables. I will attempt to get more information by way of taking my table set-up to the VPI dealer in Seattle, and probably take my phono stage in as well, for a/b'ing with different tables and stages. He will also be able to check set-up at the same time, and maybe this will provide some answers for me.
I'm going to try a different phono stage, a Dynavector P-75 MK2, and I will report on how that differs from my current set-up. That will arrive probably in about a week, so after that I will report back.
Neal, I have had active pre-amps in my system before, and now, with the passive, my system is the best-sounding it has ever been to this point. The passive I am using is transformer-based, not resistor-based, so it doesn't seem to squash dynamics like some passives seem to do.
Thanks all, Dan |
Hello, all-
I have to say I'm certainly not having the experience Siegfried is having as mentioned in Ncarvs' thread. It has been suggested by Clark at Acoustic Sounds that what I need to do is go up to the VPI Aries 3 with 10.5 tonearm, which is the same table Siegfried moved up to. Of course, Clark would like nothing better than for me to buy a new Aries 3 from him. Sorry, but that ain't gonna happen. I might someday be able to swing a screaming good deal on a used 3, but that's about it. I just hope to have Siegried's experience someday soon. Kinda like waiting for Santa to arrive.
In the meantime, I will continue to listen to what I have now, and have all parameters checked. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying my set-up sounds bad, actually it sounds better than any analog rig I've had. And it might be recording dependant. But I will push forward with plans to have it checked, and go from there.
Thanks to all,
Dan |
I would have to second your opinion, Dave. The best vinyl recordings I have, such as the Albeniz Suite Espanola, a Speakers Corner re-issue, is astounding in what it can do. Is it better than the best of my digital recordings? Tough call. It's different, that's for sure. There is no denying that it is a different experience than digital. Better? Maybe. I'll have to get a matching set of vinyl/digital recordings to really tell, which I am yet to do, though it is on my to-do list.
As far as the purchase of the P-75MK2 is concerned, I feel that is a win-win thing all the way through. If it sounds better than my GCPH, I will keep it. If not, I will sell it. If nothing else, it will satisfy my curiosity about something I've been wondering about for a while. I even posted a thread about it, as some of you may be aware of.
I have to wonder at a system that seems as though it shouldn't be able to do what it does, and does it so well. Not unlike the flight of the bumble bee. Amazing. I am not here to bash analog, I just want to try to get the best out of it that I can, without spending vast sums of money I don't have.
Thanks for the input from all of you, enjoy,
Dan |
This is a bit of an update on this thread. Since my last post, I have changed phono pres to the Dynavector P-75 MKII, which makes a superb match with the Dyna XX2MKII cart I am using. A week ago today, I recieved a new JMW9 Signature arm from VPI. I am blown away by how much better the plain old Scout sounds now. I just finished listening to Richard Thompson's Pour Down Like Silver lp on Carthage, and the last selection, side 2, Dimming of the Day/Dargai, I heard the most beautiful guitar I have ever heard (on a recording). Just phenonminal.
I am forced to listen through my 'phones at the moment, (Sennheiser HD 600, w/Musical Fidelity XCanV2) since I have my system torn down to move a probematic wood stove to a different wall, so the audio system can be located in a much more preferable spot. But, as of now, I will proclaim vinyl digital's equal, if not its better.
Thanks for all the previous posts, and as always, enjoy!
Dan |
I will, Dave, and I intend to post photos of before and after (too bad we can't do that with sound). I'm having some special tile work done for the stove hearth pad, with two different colors of granite, with some marble inlay. Should be nice, but I'm much more excited about how my system will sound in the new location.
Thanks, and enjoy,
Dan |
Hi all,
Update on current state of affairs. Wood stove succesfully moved, audio system in new location, with the exception of surround speakers, which I don't seem to be in any hurry to finish.
Dynaudio's are sounding great in their new home, after much experimentation in placement. This morning, found the best spot yet, 78" from the front wall, 57" from side walls.
Analog front end (Scout w/Signature arm, Dynavector P-75 MKII pre, Dyna XX2MKII cart), improved by quantum leaps by virtue of the addition of Mapleshade Nanomount System, and today, added a PS Audio P300 Power Plant. I am totally amazed at how much difference these two tweaks have made. The P300 stabilized turntable speed, and the little Dyna phono-pre sounds as though it must have had a few kilo-bucks of high-end magic infused into it.
I firmly believe I have arrived where my vinyl source can take me, and it is a very good place to be. All in all, the move, and good purchases on the 'Gon, has made music much more enjoyable than ever before.
Thanks to all who gave valuable input, it was a great help.
Enjoy,
Dan
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