Airtight vs My Sonic Lab

They are built by the same gentleman.

....and very fine gentleman indeed!I have listened to them on two occasions,not with the same system, so hard to do reasonable comparisons....but the MSL may be more "romantic" and the AT is more "precise"...

I've heard the pro's and cons about both cartridges being the same, especially after I asked my seller of about purchasing a PC 1. The response was, "They're made by the same gentleman, why would you buy it twice?"

Would the same response be to the difference between the Air Tight PC 1 Supreme and the My Sonic Labs Hyper Eminent, also built by the same gentleman? Has anyone opted for the upgrade and HEARD a difference that warranted the difference in price from one cartridge to another.? If so, might I ask your age, as ears tend to degrade in time. At 67 years of age, I can hear to 11,000 HZ and not much more. Are you younger guys basing your opinion on that which I cannot hear or????

I make the assumption that we're talking about arms and tables on the same level as the cartridges, no Garrard or Webcor changers here :-) For those over 60!

regards, Ken

Ken, although I have a fair bit of catching up to do before I hit 60 (grin), I do know something about these cartridges so please allow me to respond.

Matsudaira is the original designer, My Sonic Labs is his brand, and Eminent is his sub-brand for cartridges. Matsudaira is responsible for a number of OEM designs based on the Eminents, and the AirTight PC-1 Supreme is one such OEM. For years, Matsudaira's particular area of interest has been the reduction of coil impedance while keeping the output voltage usable. Therefore, Matsudaira has been leapfrogging between his own brand and his OEMs, pushing the coil impedance ever lower. Because of this, the Eminent lineup doesn't have any direct correspondent to the PC-1 Supreme (1 ohms 0.4mV).

Here's the Kubotek Haniwa HCTR01, another Eminent OEM which extracts 0.35mV from 0.8 ohm coils (link in Japanese):
http://www.kubotek.com/haniwa/cartridge.html

You can see the Eminent lineup here (link in Japanese):
http://joshinweb.jp/audio/5727.html

Matsudaira's present top model is the Ultra Eminent BC, and in it he's managed to drop the coil impedance to 0.6ohms while maintaining an output voltage of 0.3mV (probably measured at 3.54cm, so if measured at 5cm/sec it would give 0.42mV).

You can see it here (link in Japanese):
http://joshinweb.jp/audio/5727/4535540143437.html

FWIW, my listening impression of the Eminents and AirTight is the opposite of Prcinka's.

hope this was of interest.

John

Many thanks for the helpful comments. Regarding the listening impressions, did you find the Ultraeminent to have better transient and resolution while the supreme has more midrange texture and bass warmth?

Ken,

Did triplanar start making 12" arms?

Thanks

My listening experience of MSL Ultra EMinent Bc and Air Tight PC-1/PC-1 Supreme is also the opposite of Prcinka's, MSL more precise, transparent and AT more romatic, more emphasis on mid-low.

Dan

Here is a link to my comparison between the My Sonic Labs Signature Gold and the AirTight Supreme cartridges:

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?10183-My-Sonic-Labs-Gold-Signature-VS-Air-Tight-Supreme/page2

For some time now I have been interested in comparing the My Sonics Labs Signature Gold to the AirTight PC-1 Supreme. Both cartridges are designed, or at least manufactured by Mr. Y. Matsudaira of Japan. The Supreme has been my reference cartridge for two and a half years now. It replaced the original AirTight PC-1.

I have listened to the MSL now for over a month. It had 20-25 hours on it when I mounted it on my arm and I’ve put another 45 hours on it, so it should be fully broken in. The two cartridges have slightly different specifications. The Supreme weighs 12 grams, has an internal impedance of 1 ohm, and an output of 0.4 mV while the Sig. Gold weights 10 grams, has an internal impedance of 1.4 ohms and an output of 0.5 mV.

The set up procedure was very straight forward. To my relief, the cartridge mounting hole to stylus distance is exactly the same for the two cartridges, so I was able to use my MINT BEST LP Protractor to align each cartridge. Because my SME V-12 does not have a slotted headshell, the MINT is made specifically for my V-12 and Supreme combination. And with the different weights, I did have to remove one of the SME counterweights from my arm to best balance the MSL.

I found the VTA to be the same for both cartridges. As you may know, I have a specific SRA for each of my LPs. Many have the same setting, so I do not have to change the VTA each time I listen, but I have about five different settings for my collection of LPs. At the average VTA setting, VTF for the Supreme is 2.125 grams while the Sig. Gold is 2.0 grams. These VTFs vary slightly as I adjust VTA. Zenith was adjusted to line up at the null points on the MINT. There is a very small amount of play in the mounting holes on the SME headshell, so I am able to slightly rotate the cartridge in the headshell. There is no azimuth adjustability with the SME arm.

You can see from some of the photographs earlier in the thread the details about stylus profiles and cantilever design. The Supreme uses a solid boron cantilever while the Sig. Gold uses a hollow duralumin cantilever.

I listened to a variety of records, but mostly to small scale jazz, vocals and classical chamber and symphonic music. Some of the more familiar recordings:

Tschaikowsky, Violin Concerto, Heifetz/Reiner, RCA Living Stereo
Rachmaninoff, Symphonic Dances, Eiji Oue, Reference Recordings
Mozart String Quintets, Grumiaux Trio, Philips
The Sheffield Drum Record, Jim Keltner, Direct to Disk
Beethoven, Appassionata, Kamiya RCA, Direct to Disk 45 RPM
Muddy Water, Folk Singer, Chess reissue, 45 RPM

Listening Impressions: Compared to the Supreme, The Sig. Gold is more neutral with a flatter tonal/frequency response. It is slightly more extended in the bass and treble. It is extremely resolving and it has explosive dynamics. I had never heard the amount of pure energy on the Sheffield Drum Record and on the Bosendorfer piano on Beethoven’s Appassionata from my system. Full orchestras also had an increased power and scale from even my small system based on the Magico Mini II speakers. It really was incredible. With this cartridge, I feel as though I'm hearing more from my records than ever before. And it is very natural sounding.

The Supreme, on the other hand, is tonally slightly tilted toward the midrange frequencies, so it sounds a bit more forward and present, though it has an overall slightly more relaxed sound. It also has slightly more developed harmonics and overtones and tends to sound warmer, richer and fuller. Perhaps it is a bit darker. Some might call this a coloration or distortion. I find it makes voices and strings sound absolutely beautiful, palpable and real in my room. It's funny, but I never noticed this slight character with the AirTight until I heard the MSL in my system. It is that subtle.

Both cartridges extract a tremendous amount of information and detail from the grooves. Despite this high degree of resolution, neither is aggressive or causes the least bit of fatigue. One can listen for hours and simply be lost in the glorious reproduction of music. I think the Supreme is just a bit quieter in the grooves and is a slightly better tracker. I heard this tracking difference only on the ultra dynamic solo piano in Appassionata and had to increase the VTF just slightly.

If I were to sum it up, the MSL is more about truth while the AirTight is more about beauty. Though I have not heard either a Lyra or a Koetsu in my own system, I would think that the MSL is not quite as precise or as detailed as the Atlas, nor is the Supreme nearly as warm or as rich as a typical Koetsu, but this is just a guess. These two cartridges are more similar than they are different. Unlike Koetsu and Lyra, they are like two slightly different flavors in the middle. A bit like butter-pecan and almond ice-cream instead of like chocolate or vanilla. Each is highly resolving, has great detail, tone and dynamics, but they are voiced slightly differently.

Both cartridges are extremely good. In my system, the MSL tells me slightly more about the recording and sounds unbelievable on the best of them while the AirTight sounds more beautiful on more of the LPs in my collection and can put a singer or violin right in the room with me. Like the Supreme, the Signature Gold is one of the truly great cartridge designs available today. It is a shame that it is not better known here in the US. It deserves more attention and a couple of reviews.

I have decided to add the Signature Gold to my small but growing collection of cartridges.

Great comparison thanks for the information and very easy to get an idea on how these cartridges sound. A.J. Conty of Basis wanted me to hear My Sonic Labs against my ZYX Ultimate 2. It sounds like the two are similar. Thanks again

I know this thread is old but wanted to post my comments on these two outstanding cartridges.  Certainly two of the best sounding cartridges i have heard to date,  i have listened to both extensively, no not on the same systems but i have extensive listening skills and can listen through a system and tell you what each component is doing in a system.  First both of these cartridges are exceptional, but there important differences that might be more to your liking.  The PC—1 is exceptionally fast, detailed, dynamic.  Exceptional resolving power.  
The ultra eminence is more relaxed, still very dynamic.  I find it to more natural exceptionally well balanced.  It is the closest i have heard to madter tape quality.  It totally shocked and amazed me.  In fact in the system i heard it in we were playing some of the best mastered and sounding vinyl versions of music, compared to 15ips second gen master tapes on a modified Ampex ATR 102.  All tapes and the machine by Bernie Grundmen.  And let me tell you, of course the master tapes were better, BUT the analog was not far off.  It is to this day the best sounding cartridge i have heard.  With the PC-1 coming in a very close second.  

I know this thread is old but wanted to post my comments on these two outstanding cartridges.  Certainly two of the best sounding cartridges i have heard to date,  i have listened to both extensively, no not on the same systems but i have extensive listening skills and can listen through a system and tell you what each component is doing in a system.  First both of these cartridges are exceptional, but there important differences that might be more to your liking.  The PC—1 is exceptionally fast, detailed, dynamic.  Exceptional resolving power.  
The ultra eminence is more relaxed, still very dynamic.  I find it to more natural exceptionally well balanced.  It is the closest i have heard to madter tape quality.  It totally shocked and amazed me.  In fact in the system i heard it in we were playing some of the best mastered and sounding vinyl versions of music, compared to 15ips second gen master tapes on a modified Ampex ATR 102.  All tapes and the machine by Bernie Grundmen.  And let me tell you, of course the master tapes were better, BUT the analog was not far off.  It is to this day the best sounding cartridge i have heard.  With the PC-1 coming in a very close second.