A Big DIY Bang for Your Buck?
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Getting back on track for just a sec and I realize I mentioned this very briefly already, you know, just to see if anyone picked up on it. But I’ll mention it again. The tiny little bowls, the copper ones, are doing magical things for my headphone system. So far I’ve installed maybe 40 copper bowls of various sizes in most rooms here, including bathroom, kitchen and bedrooms. Does anyone find that a little odd? all comments welcome. |
herman, Are you implying that geoffkait alternates his position -- and that we have been lured into a convoluted thread? This is just geoffkait being himself. No harm in that, is there? And no harm in giving him a platform on which to pontificate -- and a place where he can hopefully attract prospective customers. Shame on you for being ashamed. We should take his advice and lighten up and take advantage of this opportunity. This is more fun than watching MSM television. |
Sabai, we have both been lured into yet another convoluted thread where geoff alternates his position . He has stated that magnets do not affect the signal
He has also emphatically stated that it does
I am ashamed to admit I got pulled in yet again. |
geoffkait, Perhaps you did not read my links and my comments carefully enough. There is much that is still unknown about electromagnetic fields and photons. Empirically, the bottom line is the fact that magnets can greatly improve the sound. Frankly, if I were an audio manufacturer posting to Audiogon I would be more careful about being glib and disrespectful so as not to turn off prospective customers -- trying to attract whom is presumably one of the reasons audio manufacturers post to the forum and why, presumably, some audio manufacturers try to demonstrate their knowledge -- while not forgetting to mention their products frequently. 2channel8, Connectors can be as important as the wire. I use top Furutech wire and connectors for my DIY power cords and other wires. I have tried connectors from many companies and I find Furutech is far above all others in my system. |
Can we quit the nattering and get back to some useful suggestions? Please? I made my first power cord. I believe physics would dictate that a cord cannot improve the quality of the electricity fed into it; but can degrade it. So I made a power cord out of the same 12/2 romex I used to wire my house. It’s stiff but works as long as I don’t move my amp before unplugging it. I don’t notice any improvement, so I guess the Rotel stock 16 AWG cord is pretty good. I will say I probably selected the wrong IEC connector. The IEC LOCK+ is unreliable in terms of making a connection and does not lock at all on most components. https://www.amazon.com/Rewireable-IEC320-C13-Accidental-Unplugging-Disconnections/dp/B01DCFVXKK/ref=... I need another suggestion. I'm restless for improvement; but CHEAP. No real complaints about my current SQ, but I wonder how good it can get. (or how good my hearing is.) |
sabai OP We may also note that anyone who disagrees with you in a direct and forthright manner is liable to be the subject of one of your confrontational and disrespectful replies such as "revenge of the nerds". Of course, this was said in jest. How foolish of me. Whoa! Hey, lighten up, Sabai. If you go back and check what was actually posted you’re see I only responded in kind. If you go back and read what was posted on this thread you'll see I don't attack people, I attack ideas. A sufficiently advanced technology often seems like witchcraft. - Old audiophile expression Have a nice day |
Uberdine, " 1. Turns out you absolutely have to spend $500-$700 bucks on speaker cable, but no more. In fact I made the TNT cable out of cat5 for around $50 and that was superb" These sentences seem contradictory. Is the first a fable you are disproving? Also I read that placing set of steel plates on top of a component was a great tweak, so I put an old, small transformer on my receiver's case and experimented with different locations. My jaw is still in place and the transformer is not. ;^) Koestner, I LMAO! |
Sabai, I really don't understand why you are being so confrontational. I have already told you I have been using magnets to improve sound for almost 20 years. We just happen to disagree on some of the details for better or worse. The reason I posted the bowls of water thing is not really out of line on this particular thread, you know, since the topic is cheap DIY tweaks. |
geoffkait, If you read my posting and my earlier reference very closely you will note that I am not talking about bowls of water. This kind of digression is not helpful. It merely trivializes matters and diverts attention from the subject at hand. The bottom line is that magnets, if used correctly, do in fact have a positive effect on audio system sound. |
Good one Sabai, temperature and sound. Here's a scientific trick involving temperature and sound anyone can do at home and it's FREE. It doesn't get any cheaper than that! All you need is plain old tap water. Everyone should be familiar with the relationship of heat and sound, that sound travels faster through warm air than it does through cold air. So you can easily control how sound waves travel through the air in your room by placing bowls of very cold water out in front of the speakers in a row, let's say 3 or 4 bowls depending on how big the room is and how big the bowls are. Thus when you listen to your favorite track you'll notice it's clearer, more open and more realistic. Because the sound waves are bending downwards due to the slowing up of the waves close to the bowls of cold water more sound reaches the listener's ears. Tell your friends. |
There are more implications in the scientific domain, as I have been alluding to: http://www.iflscience.com/physics/magnetic-fields-can-control-heat-and-sound/ Acoustic phonons have magnetic properties: https://phys.org/news/2015-03-landmark-magnets.html |
toddverrone, Just would like to say thank you, I put 1/2" thick Closed-Cell Neoprene foam into bottom of two-way monitors and have been rewarded with better sound top to bottom... geoffkait, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_radiation Electromagnetic waves are produced whenever charged particles are accelerated, and these waves can subsequently interact with other charged particles. EM waves carry energy, momentum and angular momentum away from their source particle and can impart those quantities to matter with which they interact. Quanta of EM waves are called photons, whose rest mass is zero, but whose energy, or equivalent total (relativistic) mass, is not zero so they are still affected by gravity. A photon is a single quantum of light or of any other form of electromagnetic radiation has a zero rest mass and is always moving at the speed of light. But the energy or work from photons , RF or audio cables, can take on only discrete values. |
geoffkait, You make an good point: "Electromagnetic waves are comprised of photons." Herman, You make a good point: " ... it is interesting to see how some twist the science to suit their needs." There are a number of things going on here. Yes, photons are the carrier for the electromagnetic wave. But the wave is indeed affected by strong magnetic fields. Note the Faraday effect and the MOKE effect (Magneto Optical Kerr Effect ). The effect of a strong magnetic field on electromagnetic waves is enough to create discernibly positive sonic effects on the sound produced by audio systems. The signal is indeed affected by magnets, and in a very good way, as one can hear when experimenting with this directly. I believe these effects are the result of polarization. In my opinion, there is a lot more going on in the photon/particle stream than has already been explained here -- or, possibly, than has even been explained by modern theory. But, in the end, this is not an intellectual or a scientific pursuit for me. My bottom line is improvement in the sound. |
I like waffles, myself...good maple syrup, butter.... What? Oh, yeah....yes, I can see there's some confusion going on here...I'm drawn to it like a moth faced with a strong source of light....not that I can offer any pithy commentary on basalt as a cure or copper bracelets or high-end cables. I just like reading this stuff...;) |
Seriously, a triangular, three dimensional device, cnc manufactured or alternately 3D printed, aluminum luminary lattice pattern prosthetic placed at the pustular apex of the cortical cray layered cranium facilitates mass efficiency air transfer of photons, electrons and skin particle pollution but with perennially positive db sensitivity resulting in way improved fidelity. No way, yes way.... dude. |
No, you’re the one that’s wrong at the fundamental level. Light is photons and electromagnetic waves. That’s why light travels at the speed of light. It’s also why audio signals in wire travel at near light speed - because the signal is comprised of photons. Audio signals would travel at the speed of light in a vacuum. Everything that’s in the electromagnetic spectrum is comprised of photons. Light, all radio frequencies, gamma rays, X-rays, audio signals in wire. They're all in the electromagnetic spectrum AND they're all comprised of photons. Follow? |
OK, you have me on a technicality about photons but you are still wrong at the most fundamental level. As you can see from the quotes below and many others, if you care to look, photons are usually reserved for visible light. The term photon (meaning "visible-light particle") was coined for these energy packets. from http://prasoondiwakar.com/wordpress/trivia/origin-of-word-photon The word photon can be broken down to Greek word phōs, which means light. Phōs can also be related to Sanskrit word bhā or ābhā which means light. When you discuss RF you usually don’t hear any discussion of photons, just the electromagnetic wave. In any case they are all electromagnetic waves so any contention that RF does not have a magnetic component is just wrong from http://www.universetoday.com/74027/what-are-photons/ Photons are basically the most visible portion of the electromagnetic spectrum. from http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/photon The photon is the fundamental particle of visible light.
photon[foh-ton] A photon is an elementary particle, the quantum of the electromagnetic field including electromagnetic radiation such as light, and the force carrier for the electromagnetic force As always, it is interesting to see how some twist the science to suit their needs. In this case, latching onto the nonmagnetic nature of photons to justify a position while ignoring the fact that it is also an electromagnetic wave. I apologize to those who are more interested in the end result than the science behind it. |
Herman Geoffkait: Someone mentioned magnets were being used to cut down on RFI/EMI. That’s an interesting idea in light of the fact, no pun intended, that RF is comprised of photons which as we know have no magnetic charge. to which Herman replied, EMI stands for ElectroMagnetic Interference. RFI stands for Radio Frequency Interference which is comprised of electromagnetic waves, not photons. Try to keep up with the discussion. Electromagnetic waves are comprised of photons. All electromagnetic waves. Light, X-rays, radio waves, what have you. They’re all photons. then Herman wrote, I’ll leave it to the group to decide who is correct. That's mighty decent of you but I think we’ve already seen what happens when you let the group decide. 😩 |
I already stated the signal IS affected by magnets. Just not in a good way. Let me give you an example. If you remove the steel I.e., magnetic door from the circuit breaker box the sound will improve significantly. Putting the magnetic door back on degrades the sound. Plus the reason manufacturers went from steel chassis to aluminum chassis was primarily a sound issue. If you like the sound of magnetic chassis then steel chassis is for you. |
sabai OP geoffkait, It improves the sound by affecting the signal. You've been hoodwinked, Sabai. When magnets are used around the room, on chassis, on walls, on wood shelves, on mirrors, on glass, they have no bearing whatsoever on the signal. Now, somebody might find some rare instance where magnet affect the signal in a positive way, but usually magnetic fields hurt the sound, which I've stated pointed out. You know, the magnetic field from transformers and the induced field from current traveling down wire. The latter is why the magnetic conduction cables sound so good, or so it would appear from all the hoopla. But not because magnets affect the signal like your thinking. In fact you yourself use magnets in the connector not on the wire. Do you think the magnets are attracting electrons or photons? give me a break! The magnetic conduction cables address the induced magnetic field in at least two ways I can see. |
Look, it cost me $70 to make $70 HFTs (I call my version HFRs -- High Frequency resonators). It would have cost me $4,200 to buy them from SR. So what if they're not the same as Ted's? They are doing a great job in my system. I looked up his patent. He uses crystals under the small screen at the bottom of his HFTs. OK, I have some chunks of quartz crystal at home. I'll see that I can do to add crystals to my HFRs and then give a listen to hear if they improve the sound even more. |
Another important point for me is that you do not have to buy expensive magnetic cables to get a really big improvement in sound. You can spend a few dollars on magnets and experiment. It takes a lot of time and patience. But since this is a labor of love for me that's not a problem. If my audio budget were unlimited I might go ahead and spend thousands of dollars on a single cable. But, at this point in time, my audio budget is not unlimited. So, I am relying on intuition, imagination and creativity to get me where I want to go. So far, so good. |
Someone mentioned magnets were being used to cut down on RFI/EMI. That’s an interesting idea in light of the fact, no pun intended, that RF is comprised of photons which as we know have no magnetic charge EMI stands for ElectroMagnetic Interference. RFI stands for Radio Frequency Interference which is comprised of electromagnetic waves, not photons. the magnetic field produced by the magnet on the cable is orthogonal to the signal flow Since you can orient the static field of the magnet in any direction you please and the magnetic field of the signal is constantly changing it makes no sense that this would be true. Anytime you bring 2 magnetic fields near each other they will interact. I'll leave it to the group to decide who is correct. The person stating facts that can be found in countless scientific textbooks or the person stating RFI is comprised of photons. In the meantime, I will bow out as there is no point in any further debate about pseudoscience versus real science. |
Herman If you focus on what is really happening in a cable or any path that a signal follows then it makes sense that magnets will affect that signal. Actually, it doesn't make any sense at all. The reason it doesn't is just as I got through explaining a few posts ago - the magnetic field produced by the magnet on the cable is orthogonal to the signal flow. Which in layman terms means it won't affect the signal. |
Sabai, I don’t question that you hear an improvement. What is undeniable is that if the magnets do change things, that change is a distortion of the original. By definition a change in any signal is a distortion of that signal. Distortion doesn’t necessarily mean it is worse, only that it is different. However, I get your point as distortion is usually used to annotate a negative result. If what you are doing to change the signal sounds to you like it is clearer then that is a good distortion. |
herman The guy saying the paint color on magnets makes a difference is the same guy who told us several years ago that one of his little clocks affects the sound of a live symphony orchestra and the picture on a television even if the battery in the clock is dead. You decide who is worth listening to. That’s the last I’ll have to say about this individual. So lets drop all the snarky comments and silliness (paint colors on magnets make a difference) and talk some science. I said this subject would open up a big of worms. Well, folks here come the worms. Just like I said. What’s funny is his plaintif call to drop the snarky comments. Pure gold! |
mains, I agree that the inconsistency between recordings means we sometimes have to move things around to optimize the sound. But I prefer moving my chair to moving my speakers. parabolic, I make some of my own power cords and insert cylindrical neodymium magnets inside the connectors. I also use magnets on various components and devices, and on the breaker box. Since each system is different no one can tell you exactly where to place magnets (and how many) to optimize the sound in your system. You will inevitably need to do a lot of experimenting to find this out. This is really a process of trial and error. herman, Very well said. Regarding the placement of magnets, I have given some suggestions in my comments to parabolic, above. How do magnets affect the sound? They make the sound clearer and improve sound stage continuity. The sound is not distorted by installing magnets. On the contrary. They help clear up the lack of clarity in the sound that one may not be aware of until the magnets are installed. Of course, this is in my system. So YMMV. |
