Asa, your remark "...even as they perceive it" makes me wonder: Do you think they even realize the full extent and nature of the effect they have? The phenomenon of grade-inflation in Stereophile's 'Recommended Components' makes me believe they don't really know where they are standing, because until recently they could have, but now they have nowhere to turn (think of the scene in "Animal House" where the marching band is led down a blind alley...). |
HP has again given notice that his listening skills are waning. I have heard the ASL amp and the Tenors on two different sytems and the ASL amps do not belong in the same room as the Tenors nor should they be expected to although they are good amps for the money. On the right system the Tenors are magic and unfortunately in this hobby you very rarely will get SOTA unless you pay for it although much of what is out their is grossly overpriced. What he has done is probably help sell a lot of ASL amps. Keep in mind this is the same HP that told us that a certain Phillips SACD player was more musical that a $20,000 DCS setup. A lot of people got to hear that unit when it was blown out and sold at big discounts by Tweeter for $399. Read the user comments on the sound and then try and figure where he was coming from. Their are other inconsistencies out there but my point has been made. |
Zaike, I meant that what they percieve, and whether they even know that they percieve well enough, becomes less a concern after one learns how to write in that system. Your ability to discern quality becomes much less important than you would assume when you first get there, as a reviewer, because you realize that it is a game that can be learned, and learned to hide that inability.
There are MANY reviewers who I know for a fact that can't hear as good as their reviews would lead you to believe. Like I said, its a game that you become adept at. Since I was there, I can see this much easier - it nearly jumps out when I read a mag - but there are certain patterns to watch for, as SRouse alludes (and he has heard alot of great equipment), although I will refrain comment on the specifics of what he says.
Suffice it to say that many reviewers have lousy ears and realize that they can get by best by: learning the lingo, constructing it with built in deniabilty, canvass the underground to conform observations to potential critics and reduce likelihood of being found out, adopt an aristocratic attitude laced with psuedo-erudite references to feign sophistication and, if a problem arises in any of those regards, do a follow up retracing and/or correcting prior observations. Of course, towing the mag line as far as politics - and it is a fawning cat fight - enables you to be in favor to get your stuff published in order to gain "credibilty" and enact this strategy effectively. There are, actually, too many devices to go into here.
On HP, and the above is not in reference to him in particular - he had decent ears when I knew him, excepting the bias towards bass. We had our run arounds - he was going through a rough time and I had little patience then - but I will say that he was a good Editor on the writing. And, a good writer himself. I have chosen to remember that. |
Just to pick up a bit on Warrenh's earlier post: Has anyone here ever noticed in both Stereophile and TAS that it's not uncommon for one of the pieces to quit during the test? I have never seen any other brand fail as often. Yet Stereophile and TAS never seem to point out that there may be a QC problem. Can't help but agree with Warren that there are too many advertising $s involved and the mags don't want to tick off Sir Antony of MF. (Have no axe to grind with MF, but why has no one zoomed in on obvious QC problems with that company?) |
Srouse is partially correct-HP did say that the $1000.00 list price Phillips SACD player was better than the megabuck ACCUPHASE SACD combo - not the dCS gear. Hey lets crucify him for that. If all we can say about a reviewer is that they have questionable hearing ( although as to HP I disagree) that isn't too bad. At least his opinions do not appear to be advertiser driven like so many others. Accuphase does not seem to have responded kindly to HP's opinion about their SACD gear vs. the inexpensive Phillips. Accuphase used to take out two full pages in TAS-now taken by Transrotor( see ad index at page 151 Issue 140 of TAS still listing Accuphase in Cover II and page 1). No wonder TAS is trying to reduce his role. They are on their way to becoming the defunct Fi magazine and Stereophile with mass listings of non-offending Recommended components.The most interesting thing about his review of the $4,400.00 ASL amp was that he said it was the best amp he has ever heard.I can't imagine Krell, Halcro,VTL,Tenor and others are going to be too happy.Whether the ASL amps are best or not-HP I salute you.You are the corporate advertising departments nightmare. |
"I never see myself as aspiring to state-of-the-art system status, but I've already spent more time and money on the darn thing than I ever used to think I could be lured into, or am proud of, to be truthful. I bought most of the stuff used though, and stay away from high-end stereo shops like the plague, in addition to having no audio buddies and not attending the shows. So there!" Zaikesman,Sterophile Subscriber and Fremer Fan |
I meant what I said and I said what I meant. If your point is that the mags played a part in my affliction, the answer is absolutely, although in my defense I can say that I was aware of the high end - knew a few people who were into it, spent time in some some of the local shops, and eventually worked in a shop myself - for years before I ever considered taking the plunge myself. My focus has always been much more on the music (playing, talking, attending, and reading, as well as listening) and record collecting, but after occasionally glancing at some of the mags over a long period of time, I finally tried a subscription when I still had a mid-fi system. I quit in disgust after the first year. Later, after I had begun my upgrading process, I tried again - twice - and finally seem to have made my internal peace with reading the mags. I guess it's a learned ability and an acquired tolerance. Probably the biggest reasons why I enjoy reading Fremer are his sense of humor, and the fact that he's got far and away the most copacetic tastes with mine in rock music among any of the critics, but he's also fairly adept and consistent at communicating his sonic impressions of gear. While he doesn't attempt to delve as deeply as Pearson, he's also much less full of it, qualities which likely go hand in hand.
Regardless, you actually help illustrate my point to a degree as to why we should even care about the mags at all. They are an accessible - and frequently educational, at their best - way into this world (although their quality and relevance has fallen off somewhat since I began reading them, not coincidentally as the prices of the 'top' gear have escalated beyond the pale). My first disenchanment was with the whole, seemingly ridiculous, high end mythos they promoted (ah, the clarity of my thinking in those days...). The second was when I learned the hard way that just when I thought I'd gotten a handle on the rules of the game, I found out you can't always believe what you read.
But who hasn't gone through that? Despite all the mags' shortcomings and deceptions, I've read much more truth and wisdom from the better writers over the years than I've ever heard from all but a very few salesmen in the shops (there are reasons other than being a cheapskate why I don't spend much time in them anymore). I've learned a lot of the basics about technical aspects of design through the mags, and a better sense of some of the history of the hobby. Yes, I've also learned the lingo of the land, a powerful force used for both good and evil. I'm a magazine reader. Always have been, but today I find that as life has changed, I no longer subscribe to humor mags, car mags, science mags, outdoors mags, music mags, guitar mags, bicycling mags, culture mags (never did political, sports, or "men's" mags :-) - I've pared it down to just one kind of magazine, audio mags. I don't know how long this will last, but it tells me that not only do I enjoy reading them more than I don't, but I *want* to enjoy them. Audiogon is a newer thing for me, and it's a gas being interactive, but it's not as relaxing - or as frequently educational or informative - as sitting back with a freshly arrived mag and my thoughts. The better writers still know more about audio than I do (just not more about me than I do), and that's the way I like it.
Anyway Kana813, I've got nothing to hide. I think I'm decently qualified to speak on this issue (sorry! ;^). But I wonder - what exactly was your point with the above quote from me as you see it? Do you have one, or are you just attempting to needle me somehow? Well, no matter what, I can assure you that I'm suitably impressed with your going back through my posts just to find one quote you thought might be of some tactical use to you, so go ahead and pat yourself on the back despite not having scored a knockout. |
I hope that now you all know how the subtle and not so subtle linguistics of audio that persuade and dissuade exaggerate and minimize serves to divide all of us into "camps" as well as unite and illuminate.This of course applies to every facet of human behavior and endeavor.The only way to be is wary, and to be discerning without hyperbole enveloping your beliefs.It is very difficult and very individuated work but thus far paradoxically I have found no other task so wearying, so invigorating and so necessary. |
If I remember correctly, when TAS was in its "undergound" infancy they did not take advertisement from any manufacturer. In fact HP felt strongly about this and when the decision was made that for financial reasons manufacturer's advertising dollars would be needed, there was substantial angst among the editorial staff, HP included. Along with subjective evaluation of equipment, a fundamental feature of TAS was its independence from manufacturer derived advertising dollars. Equipment for review was obtained from dealers, end users, and occasionally the manufacturer. If a company objected to the equipment review they had recourse to an open letter in a subsequent issue of TAS. Well times change, but when there is potential conflict of interest or "quid pro quo" a healthy dose of skepticism is always in order. |
Today I visited two stores which carry 'Antique Sound Labs'. Neither store seamed very interested in letting me listen to any of the products. One of them even had the more expensive [lower power] amp. Both stores made the same comment 'incredible midrange, lacking near the extremes. This is not to say the hurricanes aren't great.
Being of lower cost, maybe the profit is insufficient to warrant selling?.
A side note. While at one of the stores I picked up an XRCD, good golly folks, even my modest system blew me away. |
I can state unequivocally that the dealers referred to by cousinbillyl were not talking about the Hurricanes and the Hurricanes most assuredly, and unlike many other tube amplifiers, are not rollled off at either of the frequency extremes. At a conservative 200 WPC they rock. 8 KT 88's per side are utilized at considerably below the max WPC that could have been derived from those 8 KT 88's. Powerful, detailed and extended are they, throwing a huge and airy soundstage. |
The corruption in the reviewing process of magazines like Stereophile is not only in the superlatives they praise on new products, but on the absence of reviews of products they should review. A good example is the loudspeakers from VMPS. According to a good many Audiogoners and other fellows, their VMPS 40 speaker for 5000 $ a pair sound as good as a lot of speakers Stereophile likes to praise, and which cost 20,000 dollars, or more. VMPS even won a prize for Best High-End product at the CES 2002. You did not find a single word about this fact in the Stereophile show report, much less a review. The same is true for the cable manufacturer LAT International, which offers much better value than a lot of manufacturers Sterophile and the other mags praise. This process of excluding news and reviews is true for all high-end-mags not only in the US. Examples? The largest European HiFi-magazine, Audio of Germany, once came out with a cover story on speakers of a new firm: Audioplay. The speakers cost 180 dollars each, were round, made of pasteboard, but sounded better than speakers which sold for 1000 dollars. The result at the next HiFi-show was that the new, factory-selling manufacturer was showered with customers. The competitors put such a pressure on the publishers of Audio that their sister magazine Stereoplay ran a grotesque critique of the speakers. Audioplay, the loudspeaker-maker, later came out with more amazing speakers, one of them being a reference-model, which ist still produced, sells for 1300 dollars per pair, and sounds as good as a lot of speakers four or six times their price. Not a single speaker was ever reviewed by any German mag - they had all learnt the lesson. Newer examples? The Berlin-based producer Funk Tonstudiotechnik came out with a preamp for 500 dollars, that reportedly puts to shame preamps for 2000 dollars. Not one of the larger German mags has run a review, the most you can expect is a brief mentioning in the "Industry News" |
Hey, I'd buy from a manufacturer named "Funk Tonstudiotechnik"...
Not that I can really know what goes on, but I would point out that the mags also often ignore reviewing some of the most expensive models from some well-known companies. This might simply be attibutable to the makers not supplying review samples, but one can never tell how they go about deciding what gets covered. Speaking of things German, last month's Stereophile featured a review of a German DAC with a high price tag that has never been advertised in the magaizine, and that I had never heard of before... |
Yes, Hassel, you've seen this: coersion/censorship through omission. As I said, there are many tacit dynamics which work to produce the same end of false guru and prostrate acolyte. People, because they are focused on what is "done" - focused on action - many times do not see to a sufficient degree what is not done (interestingly, some of you may note that, once more, there is an attachment to seeing the object rather than the space around the object; this is another manifestation of objectified thinking - sorry, just had to get that in there...).
The mags, and all authoritative hierarchies, including our government, attempt to control information (the thought-objects, so to speak) that you see, and shepard away from your sight thoughts that are contrary to their intent - which is, invariably, the accumulation of more power over that information, and, hence, your mind. People who want someone to tell them what the world is, then conform to the thought-objects given to them and never see wider to see the ones that are omitted.
Don't you know, folks, the apex actor in the hierarchy - the pharaoh, the king, the false guru, the imperialized president - they think that you are stupid for not seeing what they are not-doing right in front of your face, all in trade for your false security (in what gear to choose, in what to think, in who is your enemy...). They think you are sheep, and, as such, do not deserve what they have, or seek to have more of.
The Pharoah is the Pharoah, Caesar is Caesar, the King is the King, the false guru becomes your false guru, the false leader's false ideas become your mind's false ideas, not because they "do" it to you, but because you have chosen not to SEE. You choose their omission. You choose them instead of yourself.
So, the blue pill or the red pill? |
Jeez guys, I tee'd it up with just the right dose of anarchistic flavor and not one bite. It's tough when when becomes a known quantity... |
Asa, Asa, my object-Asa, there has been a known quantity for quite some time now... |
But alas, my mind is not false. 'tis what matters in the end. False gurus are temporary, but the truth has limitations, and unfortuately ignorance abounds. That is limitless, with limitless possibilites. The cream will come to the top, but not always in my (your) time. |
Ah ha, I knew you wouldn't let me down Zaikes!
...but not too long, eh Zaikes? |
Hello Warrenh.
"The Kingdom of [cream] is within and all around but men do not see"
Zaikes and Warrenh. I take that back, Zaikes, I got two nibbles (saying known quantity IS a nibble...).
Nice nibbles though...
On cream in audio: we are all on a quest to experience music more deeply. In that quest, we rely upon the person sitting next to us to help us. We listen ourselves, but realize that others who have already traveled this way might give us some pointers. Giving pointers must, regardless of alternative profit motive, derive its impoetus from empathy; I must want you to experience what I have experienced, to join me in that experience. That is what we do here on this site - we share that experience. Now, some people pointing are disingenuous because they tell us that they are giving us the truth when actually they are dressing up facts to sound true only to induce a behavior on your behalf that is beneficial - in a material sense, or in terms of increased adoration, or both - for themselves. They give information to increase their power and fuel their narcissism rather than for you joining them.
This happens in the magazines and it acts as a skein over the Truth - but only if you conform to it exclusively and choose not to see what it is (the root of ignorance is to ignore): namely, Truth with a veil of their self-interest intervening. Then, it is a partial truth, and must be seen in that light, in the light of your sober equanimity, to see what it has to offer.
Zaikes, what happened to your speaker, really?
And, thinking about a tubed pre?
Hurricanes have too much tube hassle for you - me too - but I wonder how they'd sound on your Apogees. Probably not enough current overall, but it would be ineresting to hera what they sounded like within that parameter. |
Oh, did I allude to my blown crossover above? I'm not going back to see, and anyway I'm not sure who your last paragraph is directed towards (I don't have Apogees). But yes, one of my little ol' Thiels still is awaiting a factory vacation to take the cure, and no, I'm not thinking about a tubed pre right now, as I'm still getting aquainted with this Levinson 380S (so unromantically utilitarian, I know) that is trying to deflect and pacify me, but neither do I rule out future further explorations of the glowing-glass kind. And if your final thought was for me, my VTL amps have tubes a-plenty in 'em already, winds in excess of 75mph notwithstanding. |
I'm sorry Zaikes, I got you confused with Muralman. |
