40+ watts SET, cost is not a problem


Friends,

Hope everyone is well here. I am visiting after a long time. I have a query on behalf of a close buddy of mine. He is using a pair of TAD CR1x loudspeakers. Gorgeous speakers for sure. The source is an EMT 927 TT & JPA66 preamp. For the amplification things are getting tricky. He has tried the TAD M700s reference power amp and while it sounds very controlled, it doesn't have the openness and dimensionality of tone that a good tube/SET amp provides. We are considering trying a good SET for this system. Given that TAD needs some power blossom well and expand on effortlessly, at least 40 watts of SET power would be needed. The quick choices are Kondo Kagura & Wavac HE833 Mk2. But I need more suggestions on these and other comparative products.

1. Has anyone heard the Kondo and Wavac gears to suggest a comparison? I am just a bit worried on the amount of Silver used in Kondo. I have normally found that silver takes away something from the flow and harmonics. Tell me more about it.

2. What other options can be considered in this realm? No SS please. Looking for SET options primarily.

 

Room size is moderate 17 x 13 feet. Music preferred are classic rock, jazz, pop and some classical

 

pani

Having heard multiple Berning amps, they ultimately sound a bit sterile to me because of the switch mode power supply. If an audio designer can't even hear the basics of music and figure out what is lost with a switching PSU and just uses it for specs, I have no respect for such designers. And the industry is full of such people. Thats why high end audio is so difficult to get right, musically :-(

Reach out to Aric at Aric Audio for his take. Perhaps something bespoke is what you seek and what he can likely deliver.

the listening distance is indeed near field (6-7 feet from the plane of the speakers). However, I do understand your point of these speakers needing a lot of power. Why do you suggest Class D and not A, AB ?

@pani Most solid state amps lack the Gain Bandwidth Product to support the feedback they have. As a result, at some point in the audio band (often, only 1KHz), the feedback begins to decrease on a 6dB/octave slope, often faster as frequency increases. Distortion thus rises on a complementary curve.

This sort of thing is audible, usually as harshness (since higher ordered harmonics are unmasked in this manner) and brightness (for the same reason).

OTOH its very easy to generate enormous Gain Bandwidth Product with a class D design. That makes it possible to have feedback with no rise in distortion anywhere in the audio band, much like a zero feedback amp but with lower distortion, which results in a more musical presentation with greater detail. Some class D amps, as a result, can sound every bit as musical and involving as the best SETs, with greater transparency.

’Nearfield’ is usually about 3-4 feet FWIW. If you really are limited to that distance you might find a tube amp that can do the job. The reason the Sensitivity spec (2.83 Volts/1 meter) is used is because solid state amps can double power as impedance is halved. Being able to do that defines the amp as a Voltage source and that is what the speaker is designed for. Tube amps can behave as a Voltage source too, but do it by cutting power in half as impedance is doubled. So tubes tend to be a lot more expensive on that account. Since tubes don’t double power as impedance is halved, the Efficiency spec (1 Watt/1 meter) is more useful with tubes because it tells you at a glance if you have enough power. 83dB in my room would require 800 Watts(!) and I really don’t know of anyone making an amp that is that powerful and also sounds like real music.

Consider that if you had a speaker of 93dB you would not need to take a hit on resolution or bandwidth, but the amp needed would be a 10th of the power. So you could do the same sound pressure with 80 Watts instead of 800 in my example just above. Now its easy. If nearfield you really could use an SET (although not to its best advantage).

Right now its simply out of the question. If you want to do your friend right, really think about a different speaker.

Having heard multiple Berning amps, they ultimately sound a bit sterile to me because of the switch mode power supply.

Its highly unlikely the switch mode supply has anything to do with what you heard! When you hear differences in amplifiers, again its the distortion of that amp that is its sonic signature. The SMPS is operating at 250KHz in that design; you’re not going to hear it. IOW I get that you might not like the sound of the amp but the SMPS isn’t why it sounds that way.

@paradisecom, yes, the Magma’s are monsters! The transformers are about twice as big as the ones on the NAT Audio Generators. The chassis is 26" long. The Magma M’s transformers are almost one foot tall!

The sonics are much more pleasing than the push/pull 805 Generators. Currently these high powered SET arms may offer the most value of high current/watts SET amps on the market.