40+ watts SET, cost is not a problem


Friends,

Hope everyone is well here. I am visiting after a long time. I have a query on behalf of a close buddy of mine. He is using a pair of TAD CR1x loudspeakers. Gorgeous speakers for sure. The source is an EMT 927 TT & JPA66 preamp. For the amplification things are getting tricky. He has tried the TAD M700s reference power amp and while it sounds very controlled, it doesn't have the openness and dimensionality of tone that a good tube/SET amp provides. We are considering trying a good SET for this system. Given that TAD needs some power blossom well and expand on effortlessly, at least 40 watts of SET power would be needed. The quick choices are Kondo Kagura & Wavac HE833 Mk2. But I need more suggestions on these and other comparative products.

1. Has anyone heard the Kondo and Wavac gears to suggest a comparison? I am just a bit worried on the amount of Silver used in Kondo. I have normally found that silver takes away something from the flow and harmonics. Tell me more about it.

2. What other options can be considered in this realm? No SS please. Looking for SET options primarily.

 

Room size is moderate 17 x 13 feet. Music preferred are classic rock, jazz, pop and some classical

 

pani

Showing 12 responses by charles1dad

@lynn_olson 

But for inefficient speakers with high-order (18 or 24 dB/octave) crossovers ... probably not. Speakers like that need an amp with a high damping factor and at least 200 watts of clean power. High damping factor typically requires high feedback, and high feedback also means hard clipping.

Okay got it..I'll defer to your assessment. No one knows more the capabilities and suitability of this amplifier than you (And Don Sachs).

Charles

@lynn_olson

but SET output transformers have serious design challenges once the power gets much beyond 20 watts.

In the link provided above, Andy Grove (Audio Note) acknowledged that in his article and explains his remedy. By many listener accounts he was successful with the 845 tube amplifier output transformers dilemma.

I wish the OP could sample your Black bird designed 300b push-pull with the TAD speakers he wants to drive with tube amplifier. 17x13 ft room, pretty much near field environment.

Charles

@jond 

As usual a very descriptive and informative article by Andy Grove. In addition to audio/electrical engineering talent, he is a very adept writer.. Appreciate his distinctions between the 845 and 211 DHT tubes and why he decided upon the former in the Ankoru amplifier.

Charles

@jond 

Thank you! I will read it. I have  held Andy Grove in high regard for some time now.

Charles

@tvad 

the symbiosis with Audio Note amplification and loudspeakers cannot be replicated. One without the other is handcuffing the possibilities, and those amps are very expensive

Interesting. I wasn't aware that the Audio Note components were so specifically tied (Synergistic ) to their siblings in order to extract the very best sound quality they're capable of.

Charles

@pani 

I am not very familiar with the Audio Note Ankoru. Given its pedigree I’m sure that it is quite worthy. Best wishes for this endeavor.

Charles

 

@pani

But I am so keen and smitten by SET that I will first explore it well!

As well you at the very least should do. I recall sharing numerous interesting threads with you in past years. You have extensive experience With a wide variety of  Audio components. At this stage it is fair to say that you know what you like and what and what you are seeking.

 

@verdantaudio gave you some promising SET options, Aries Cerat and KR Kronzilla. Also VIVA Audio PSET 845 I’d mentioned previously. There’s an excellent PSET 845 made in Japan by Triode Corporation. These are big 50 watt per channel mono blocks. I’ve heard them personally and they are splendid! I believe that a top notch SET, PSET or DHT class A push pull amplifier will deliver what you are searching for sonically and musically.

Charles

@pani 

I own the Coincident Frankenstein 300b SET mono blocks. They also build a 211 push pull  (Class A zero NFB) mono block named the Dragon. It’s 75 watts per channel. By all accounts it is fabulous sounding.

Charles

@atmasphere

300b is about as powerful as you can get and still claim hifi bandwidth. The thing is, if the amp doesn’t employ feedback, you’ll get phase shift down to about 10th the upper cutoff frequency (-3dB point) and 10x the lower cutoff. This is filter theory.

On technical grounds I won’t even try to dispute what you stated. I can only rely upon what I have heard. I’m very familiar with in particular two PSET 845 amplifiers (50 watts for each pair) that could suffer the bandwidth limitations you mentioned. I can genuinely say however that both of them sound superb and so natural reproducing music.

I am referring to the Absolare Passion 845 mono blocks and the Viva Audio Aurora 845 mono blocks. I don’t know how they conquer/manage the potential bandwidth limitations. I can attest that listening to music, Both are stunningly terrific! No doubt their respective designers/engineers could explain how they accomplished this.

Charles

@audioman58

I have owned a 300b SET for 15 years and simply love it. However any DHT can be utilized in a SET amplifier. 2A3, 45, 211,805,GM70 etc. SET is not limited to300b.

Charles

@pani

Ralph does make an interesting point. Most tube push pull amplifies are class A/B with NFB. So a pure class A zero NFB PP topology could be a potentially wonderful option with the TAD speakers.

Charles

@pani 

Trying to stay with your stated quest, Aries Cerat Diana Forte. PSET 845 with 60 watts per channel. At the very least they are worth a look.

Charles