cycles2, crates could probably be bought from JM Focal or custom made. At least, that's what I would do if I couldn't pick them up myself or send a limo to do it for me. I however don't know how they would match with Gryphon or even Ypsilon. Most Utopia owners seem to use tube amplification, often either VAC or Allnic. In another thread an experienced member said that bigger Jadis, not integrated, should be a great match. |
@ggc > go with op one as it would be more value.
Blindjim > I’m fast coming to that point of view, despite the spkr I feel I would prefer based on no tangible exp with it/them.
Never heard them. Never even seen them in reality. Postulating on pure articles and owner accounts and spec sheets.
Yet, I still think to myself, hey now, those should be great!.
Amazing. Huh? Damn near stupid when you stop and think about it.
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@gsmith5 > “…Go To Audio shows $600 ticket and $500 room is small price to invest in a $20,000 decision
Blindjim > Absolutely golden!! Very nice.
It seems a very logical and prudent direction if one is gonna get that deep into the pond.
Albeit as well, or in addition following that would be to see the item desired if not shown at an audio convention.
This is the most logical path. Even if it meant spending $5K in travel exp. Given amp (s) could be in order for someone too.
Likely chances are both desired items, speakers, and or amp (s) won’t be at the same place at the same time. Of course. Most o’ the time it just be’s that way.
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@stargazer3 > commission a 3rd party expert to put it all together and then check his or her results out.
Blindjim > that is indeed original and fantastic input. Thanks so very much!
My issue with that is I would have to completely DIVORCE myself from my own ego.
Chances are as well, honing in on exactly what I want esthetically and sonically could be a pretty extended ordeal.
Taking ‘ego’ out of the equation would be most difficult.
> “…one can take a gamble or an educated gamble and buy the second hand speaker blind based just on reviews”.
Blindjim > yep. That is the number one answer IMO so far. Adding in owner commentary and their exp with past speakers.
I’ve done that trip more than a Little with other gear and the results thehn were regularly very good. Albeit, it was with items under $10K retail. Always.
As much as option 2 leads the pack, the ‘travel’ factor makes just as much sense. If not more in an attempt to settle the mind’s intermittent second guessing free floating onslaughts that will fly later on.
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I would never trust anyone to choose speakers for me or even do the initial selection.
It is often difficult to interpret the reviews because before doing it one must 'interpret' the reviewer. Usually I think I can do it with Michael Fremer. The review of the Venture speakers posted here tells me that they are quite indifferent even cold speakers, something that I personally would never choose. If the reviewer is right and honest, he probably is.
Now, Lansche and Focal Utopia are very different. Gut stringed guitar or metal stringed guitar ? It depends, both good. |
Yes, forgot to mention, Lansche plasma tweeter should be replaced every 5000-7000 hours, I think.
I have never seen used any Lansche model for less than $20k, though their entry-level $30k + model should be less than that if available. |
@Inna
Agreed. Although the plan was original. Using other ears to satisfy my own is problematical. Likely extensive. Unpredictable. Like the toss of a coin. Maybe, maybe not. It would depend then too on the resources of the ‘expert’ as to what he could haul in or arrange elsewhere.
Agreed on knowing more of the hand holding the pen correlates better to what is said in a review. For one, Art Dudley has yet to steer me wrong. I seem to have agreed with a couple others more often than not too.
I would not be above building or hiring someone to construct crates and cutting insulation to fit at these prices.
Thanks very much for the tweeter input.
I’ve been wondering on that tweeter longevity since reading that expose on the 7. Sounded fabulous.
In fact, it arose another thought on driver life too. Surrounds. X overes, etc..
Sorry, this is well off topic but germain to the 7s and other options listed herein.
Do you know how much overall height of speaker plays a part in adopting them to a particular room with standard 8.5 to 9.5 high cielings? I can’t imagine getting another place with ceilings very much higher than that.
never bothered to investigate the relationship of tall speakers to ceiling heights. Always stuck to units of 48 inches or less. Mostly 40in. +- usually.
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Go to RMAF. Confirm your initial impressions. |
This is a good question about the speakers' height to which I don't really have an answer. Perhaps you could start a thread regarding it.
I might be wrong but I think I wouldn't worry if there were at least 3 feet between the ceiling and the speakers. But again it's a guess, maybe 2 feet is not a problem either and maybe it also depends on other things. If you are considering Lansches, why not ask them as well ? |
Another idea is to send a message to Dimitris of Ypsilon and ask him about speakers that he prefers. Not only his electronics is among the very best he also records live music. Flemming of Gryphon makes his own speakers but I would probably ask him too. He likes big scale music.
Lansches will unlikely be the best speakers for orchestral music and hard rock, though. They are elegant speakers not that Rockport/Absolare blow -it-in-your-face pseudo-masculine sound.
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Markalarsen Go to RMAF. Confirm your initial impressions.
Blindjim > second best idea here. Thanks much. It actually appears if not RMAF, something akin to it is a necessity, and part of doing business if the investment is significant. At least IMHO.
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Inna > Another idea is to send a message to Dimitris of Ypsilon and ask him about speakers that he prefers. Not only his electronics is among the very best he also records live music. Flemming of Gryphon makes his own speakers but I would probably ask him too. He likes big scale music.
Lansches will unlikely be the best speakers for orchestral music and hard rock
Blindjim > excellent idea. I keep forgetting or forgoing any notion of touching base with the maker as to fundamental things like whose peakers they use to voice their gear. Preffs. Especially when user replaceable tubes are a part of the product.
I gotta say I can’t get it in my head to use Gryphon Diab with highly resolute speakers. Warmish? Probably. But extremely revealing? Likely nope. But then again, these are my fundmental unproven biases or theories and matching preffs. To go with Gryphon, I’d seek purely amps. Not an INT. at that point one should I guess look at Constellation, BAT SS, Vitas, etc.
Ones which have my close attention are Bermister, T+A, Nagra, VAC & ypsalon of course.
On spkr Ht. its probably like having the speaker close to any other surface. Or wall, issues with Reinforcement or reflections arise.
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High end gear should be revealing. This includes speakers, if they are not they are not high end speakers but a campwood making noises. That's exactly what most of us listen to. You want the see-thru quality not a fog. This doesn't mean unbalanced and bright, no.
And it costs a lot, so it should. |
@Inna > You want the see-thru quality not a fog. This doesn't mean unbalanced and bright, no. And it costs a lot.
Blindjim > OK. I’m forced to agree on paper. In theory. Principally however, what I’ve found as resolution increases, my catalog of CDs begins to diminish. Why? Mediocre to even decent recordings lose attraction. They simply do not sound at all worth listening to with any regularity, or at times ever. At least not on the main system.
Well, let me clarify, at least in past system efforts with what was affordable then..
If the price to have highly or highest resolution gear is to severely limit the library, I’m not too sure I want to pay it.
I’d not want to be spinning or clicking on only 100 or so albums out of 2400.
Just thinking out loud here…
Lingering curiosity says maybe, the gear I used previously which sent me indirectly to ‘tube land’ was not refined in its ability to peer thru the ‘fog’ but was etched and bright. I suppose that’s possible. AKA VSA VR4JR, BW. Krell KAV 250. Lamp cords and bell wire for cabling.
These inadvertently showed me the impact of a tube pre. It also told me to step up the game on the amp, so the BAT vk500 replaced the entry level Krell. And so on yada, yada.
With tube power pre & mono amps and more educated implementation of NOS tubes, PLC, racks, stands, iso, room treatments, and cabling I found as much resolution there, as I heard from friends pass labs xa gear & ML panels. Even at dealers showing more expensive outfits. (ayre + Wilson + transparent) Or other similar SS powered setups. Yet glass seemed to have a dimension SS did not, everytime.
It also allowed me to playback more content. Sure, bad stuff still sounded poor. Dry. Thin. Bright. Or just uninvolving. Immediately. But it could be tolerated.
Consequently ‘ultra’ uber resolute equipment as I read thru articles ‘in between the lines’ or as it is stated vividly by the writer, really concerns me on a few fronts.
Perhaps in the levels I’m investigating, my stated fears/concerns are nonsense. Dunno.
I do know too much of a good thing, is too much of a good thing, fairly often, and a system needs matching on more levels or areas than merely resolution. One can’t just belly up to the bar and ask for the most revealing source, power train, speakers, and cabling expecting all will be well when strung together. It would astonish me were all of that possible.
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I don’t know much about digital so can’t express any specific opinion. However, I think that just as in analog to make digital sound better one must do it first of all at the source, that’s transport, dac, digital cable and power cords. It is wrong to ’correct’ the sound with amps and speakers. Tuning the sound is another thing. There are warmer sounding guitars and cooler sounding guitars, and they both might have the same resolution. So might different speakers. But cd will never sound as natural as tape or vinyl, one can only try to approximate it. Some people do report that the higher resolution their systems become the more difficult it is for them to listen to poor quality digital. This has not been my experience, but then again I don’t expect much from my old CEC belt drive player. I expect much more from my turntable. |
inna
as always, thanks much!
Until digital and analog are on par with each other, there will be a need to match the system. Not necessarily to ameliorate or attenuate, but to border the line where acceptability & resolution reside.
Past EXP says there will be loads of ‘they are here’ and or ‘you are there’ info, if the recordings possess it. So if, high res defines those artifacts as primary elements, then I know which way to proceed… apart from the voices of the power amp it/themselves. .a significantly transparent loudspeaker resting on neutrality is quite do able. In fact, desired.
Until further notice, I’ve determined a nearly critically accurate source which lands close to musical, works well for me if the pre and amp (S) are resolute but have a tendency to naturalness as their main strengths. .I feel all of the power amps you’ve spoken of and I’ve an interest in, follow those guidelines be they SS or glass.
I’m sure, all will work out as it should. I’m simply not a card carrying detail oriented freak. But an AIR groupie. (acquired or attained, Illusionary reproduction).
Life ain’t like school. In school you get the lesson first then the test. In life, you get the test first, and possibly, its lesson. This is just one more effort in being educated by life. I likely just need to set aside my biases and groundless prejudices a tad more often going forward. I’ll keep an eye on those areas.
Buying used for greater performance, and travel are the two predominate things brought to greater focus here… so far, and that’s a good thing.
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Blindjim
After drinking this over I have made my decision.
Option 2, I am going to spend 20K for speakers that retail for 25K and the dealer is playing them on gear that is lower in quality then mine. Sounds like I have pretty damn good gear. I think I will talk the dealer down to half price. Tell him since I am uncertain about how it will sound in my system with my superior tube gear I am hesitant to drop big bucks.
Do you think that will fly???
I will do some more thinking about this and less to say later.
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Stargazer, get out of town, I thought that was my job. My old job. Though I am not a HiFi expert I certainly know a little bit about it.
Jim
X dealer
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Soundsrealaudio > After drinking this over I have made my decision. I think I will talk the dealer down to half price. Tell him since I am uncertain about how it will sound in my system with my superior tube gear I am hesitant to drop big bucks.
@Soundsrealaudio
Sounds fantastic… if the dealer is drinking as much as you, more if possible, so things should work out favorably. For someone.
Probably a good idea to hand over the check and get them onto the truck before he or she sobered up. Things often look very different when all the bottles and glasses are empty.
Blindjim > all in all, should I find myself in a circumstance like that, I’ll take it under advisement. Thanks much.
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stargazer
My bad. You don't need to hire any experts. Surely you can tell from this thread, if you want experts you have come to the right place. These guys can give you all the advice you could ask for and at the right price............Free.......
Tell me what kind of telescopes you own and use, I used to have a couple though that was before computer mounts that could find a nebula or closer in a few seconds rather then spending hours on a freezing cold night looking at black
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20,000 Grand for Speakers ? How many pensions are you collecting ?
Go with the JBL 4312SE or Ryans new speakers for 8 Grand And Alto makes some nice speakers too.
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