Ayre amplifier to Subwoofer connections


I am trying this question again with a more specific title to try to get responses . . .

I am intending to hook an Ayre, fully balanced amplifier to a subwoofer via the high level (speaker) inputs. Ayre has told me NOT to connect negative to black but to chassis ground. A balanced amplifier cannot be connected to anything with a common ground.

The subwoofer amplifier manufacterer (O-Audio) says the plate amplifier has no common ground by virtue of the fact that it only connects 2 prongs to the outlet.

I have also heard that other audiogoner's have connected Ayres to subs via the red and black speaker connections without a problem. How have you accomplished this?

Can anyone explain to me in more detail what is up with this technically and what connections I should be using.

Additionally, can you tell me the pros and cons of connecting the speaker leads to the sub from the speakers vs the amp. Does it have to do with length, noise, etc?

thanks to everyone in advance!
drewh1
It's an R-205 and, yes, it uses a 3-prong power cord.

I've lifted the ground. Sound seems to be the same either way.
Drubin,

The R-205 manual indicates in multiple places that for a fully balanced amplifier the black wire of the high level input should go to amp chassis.

Not sure why you didn't hear a difference when you lifted the ground. Perhaps its signal ground and ac safety ground are not common, the way they normally are with amps and preamps. If you have a multimeter, it would be interesting to see if there is continuity between the black wire and the safety ground pin of the power plug.

In any event, even if things are somehow isolated so that you avoid the risk of damage to the amp, I don't think you will get the right sound with the black wire going to the negative terminal of one of the amp output channels.

If we denote the instantaneous voltage between the amp's left positive terminal and the amp's ground as Lvolts, and the instantaneous voltage between the amp's right positive terminal and the amp's ground as Rvolts, the corresponding voltage that the sub provides to its driver should be proportional to (Lvolts + Rvolts), which is a mono signal obtained by summing together the left and right channels.

That is what will happen with the black wire from the sub connected to amp chassis. However, if it is connected to, say, the left channel negative terminal of the amp instead, what will result is ((2Lvolts) + (Rvolts-(-Lvolts))) = (3Lvolts + Rvolts). So instead of the summation to mono giving equal weight to the two channels, the left channel would receive very disproportionate emphasis (the factor of 3 corresponding to about 9.5db).

Drew -- Upon re-reading my earlier post, I want to make sure it's clear that no disrespect at all was intended when I used the word "ouch." We've all made comparable mistakes at one time or another, including me.

Regards,
-- Al
Drubin,

I have Ayre MXR's and a Rel Studio. I was instructed by Ayre to connect the red wire (positive) from the Rel to one amp's positive and the yellow wire(positive) from the Rel to the other amp's positive terinal. The black wire from the rel (negative) is to be connected to the center post that is used to tighten the Cardas terminals on one of the amps. This gives the black wire a connection to ground. Hope this helps.
Bob
Drubin- It sounds like Al helped you figure this out. Ayre did not give very complete instructions.

FYI- you can't use tape out for subwoofer output because it is a fixed output and not connected through the volume control.

Al -

no offense taken - I am glad it did not seem to have any ill effects. I guess since I connected each black to different screws on the plate amp, there was enough resistance to prevent a dead short. At any rate - the amp is the best that I have heard so far and I really do feel that the speaker connections to sub amp provide a better subwoofer integration than the pre-outs. This has been suggested in other places in this forum.

Hope everyone is enjoying some music on this beautiful Sunday morning (here in sunny CA).

drew.