Preamp with quality MC phono section



I am in the market for a preamp with a builtin quality mc/mm phono section. Budget, up to $10,000 new or used.

Preamps that I can think of with a quality phono section are:
VAC
Shindo
Doshi
CAT

Any experience with any of these or recommendations would be appreciated. BTW any SS recommendations would also be welcomed.
bobheinatz
Your initial list is admirable, and your budget is realistic. It would be nice if you'd publish your system so we could see what else is involved. But, so far so good ;~) You've left a very special contender off of your list, not surprising, but I'll get to what and why in a moment. First some basic principles:

1.) Tubes. The sonic benefit(s) ascribed to tubes over solid state when used in audio devices (basically, tubes' superior ability to preserve the most subtle aspects of the audio signal) are realized primarily when tubes are used to amplify the signal. In a home audio system, this occurs in 2 places, maybe 3, and (longshot) maybe 4 ;~) They are: power amplifier, phono amplifier, microphone amplifier, and tape recorder electronics. All four amplify the signal. In any other (audio) applications such as: preamplifiers, electronic crossover networks, equalizer/processors, tuners (up to the audio output stage), and in all digital gear, tubes won't perform any better than well-designed (meaning quiet!) solid state electronics; and on the downside, tubes can possibly add thermionic 'hiss' to the signal.

2.) MC cartridges: Are basically balanced output devices. So if you can amplify them using an amplifier with balanced inputs, you gain several advantages: Better bandwidth, much less susceptibility (of the connecting cables) to external noise, less susceptable to cartridge loading. Further, in balanced mode, an MC cartridge has a higher effective output (because in balanced mode it becomes a current device rather than a voltage device) so you can usually get away without the use of (sluggish) step-up transformers, or (quiet but harsh sounding) solid-state FET first stages in the phonoamp.

OK. Assuming you accept these basic premises (as I do, but I don't mean to twist anyone's arm) then my dream phono amplifier would have (at a minimum) these two attributes:
1.) All tube, from input to output.
2.) (True) balanced inputs
In addition, it would be *nice* if it also had:
3.) Class A amplification
4.) Fully balanced (differential) circuitry.
5.) Balanced outputs
6.) Tube rectified power supply

The one unit (which you didn't include) that satisfies the all-important (for me) first two requirements is/are the Atma-Sphere preamps with tube phonostage (when it's part of the preamp, it's a 'phonostage'; when it's free-standing, it's a phonoamp.) And the funny thing is that no one I've asked can seem to think of anyone else who makes a unit, built-in or freestanding, that satisfies the first two requirements. The MP-3 satifies 1 - 5, and the MP-1 satisfies all six. Because Atma-Sphere is best known for their great OTL amplifiers, few people seem to know much about the great preamps Ralph Karsten also makes. I found out accidentally. And to be honest, I wasn't in the market for a tube preamplifier; only a tube phono amplifier. But Atma-Sphere doesn't make a standalone phonoamp, so I 'accepted' the tube preamplifier in order to have my dream phonoamp (phonostage, actually.) And I wasn't disappointed! The preamp (linestage) is a dream also -- and extremely quiet as tube preamps go. Both the MP-3, and the (two box) MP-1 are balanced from inputs to outputs (except for a couple of tape loops). There are three pairs of 12AT7's in the phonostage, which provide plenty of gain for all but the tiniest output MC cartridges (like under .2mV) and for HO MC or MM cartridges, you actually need to remove a pair of tubes. The base price for the preamps (including phonostage) for the MP-3 is ~ $5600, and ~ $15,000 for the MP-1 Of course, you can add up to $8k+ of extras to either one if you like ;~) Best to go to the website: http://www.atma-sphere.com

BTW, I'm now planning to sell my Levinson 26s (preamp) and 25s (phonoamp), in case anyone is interested ;~)
.
Nsgarch,

Thank you for your detailed reply. I am currently using a Deja Vu tubed preamp with a builtin phono section which is a very nice quality preamp. My turntable is a Artemis/Schroder with the Artemis/Schroder arm and a LOMC.
Also using a 2A3 tube amp on Lambhorn speakers. As stated the Deja Vu preamp is exceptional but I am wordering what the next preamp upgrade might be.
Bob, I'm not really familiar with your preamp (website?) but it appears your system is currently single-ended throughout? The other units you listed are all very fine first-rate equipment, but all single-ended units; except I think the Doshi is available with (semi) balanced outputs.

My Levinson setup (pre and phono) was hard to beat. But for the reasons I explained above (i.e. the benefits of tubes in amplification) I really wanted to have or at least hear a tube phonoamp. There are many fine ones to choose from, but except for BAT, they're all single ended, and I wanted my cake and eat it too (meaning tubes + balanced) and that seemed impossible to find -- unless somebody here knows something I missed, please say so ;~)

Anyway, when I had the chance to experience the phonoamp I desired, even though it came in the form of a preamp-with-phonostage, I thought I'd give the Atma-Sphere a try. And since you said you were specifically interested in a preamp-with-phonostage, I thought I'd suggest it. Of course my preamp, DAC, and amp, are already balanced devices (the tuner and cassette player are not) so the Atma-Sphere preamp, with the kind of phonostage I wanted, was (almost) a no-brainer for me -- assuming its linestage would be a top-notch performer too, and it definitely is that! Now I'm hearing things coming from my Transfiguration Temper W cartridge I never imagined I would, so I'm pretty happy with how things turned out.
.
Bob, One of the best in the market today are the McIntosh C2300, C500, and C1000, all have built in MM and MC phono stage.
If you don't need a lot of control flexibility, the Aesthetix Io phono amp has sufficient gain (and a volume control) to allow direct connection to your power amp. Worth checking out if you can find one to audition.

Marty