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High-Bit CD s JVC XRCD worth if...

...you're already employing an upsampler??

OK- here's the deal. I use a CD player (Sim Audio Eclipse) with external BNC digital out to a DCS Purcell upsampler, then back in to BNC 'in' on the Eclipse to its' 24/96 DACs- fantastic upgrade- I'm a true believer in upsampling for standard 16/44 CD's.

Question: Do you feel its worth it to invest in higher resolution/bit-rate CD's if already upsamping to 24/96 anyways?? For example, the JVC XRCD's are excellent (I'm a jazzhead), and they are 20-bit. Now, all of my older Blue Note stuff is standard 16/44, but, when through the Purcell playing at 24/96, even better (I find the Blue Note label to be excellent original recordings anyway). There does not seem to be much difference b/w the XRCD with either method, which leads me to believe the upsampling is doing its job very well.

I guess the ultimate test would be to acquire the identical CD on reg. recording (i.e. the Riverside recording of 'Sunday at the Village Vanguard' w Bill Evans vs the JVC XRCD of same title (which I have) and compare the upsampled original copy playing at 24/96 with the High-res 20-bit XRCD version, and see if their is a major difference. If the XRCD version IS better, than obviously there is more to the sonic benefits of the XRCD than just the bit-rate/word-length issue- perhaps 'other' aspects of the remastering process are also integral to the increased res.

Any comments on this? Has anyone compared the JVC XRCD's versus upsampled versions of the same disc in its' 'original' recording format? I am about to consider a major purchase of JVC XRCD's, but they are very $$, and wondering if neccesary since already upsampling the orig. versions. Thanks!

sutts
mcguidry1f74
5 posts
 
A JVC XRCD still contains 16/44.1 data. The XRCD process is a noise shaping algorithm that attempts to increase apparent resolution of the 16/44.1 datastream derived from higher reolution studio masters.

Thus I'd expect the XRCD to sound different than the standard version of the CD when upsampled.

As Avguygeorge mentioned, it's a cheap experiment, and I'd have trouble resisting if I had the hardware. Let us know how the experiment turns out!
sutts OP
700 posts
 
thanks guys- perhaps I will do the experiment and let you know!
seldenr
59 posts
 
Guys: Sorry, I have nothing to add, but wanted to say that I have the same question since I plan to add an upsampler and use current CD player as a transport. I also long for the wonderful collection of Bill Evans XRCDs, but if the overall sound is result is very, very close to the standard CD with upsampling, what a savings, especially considering the upsampling gear is justified for the rest of my CD collection anyway. Moral of story, like Mcguidry implores, PLEASE let us know how it turns out!! Sorry Sutts for making you the guinea pig. Next experiment should be on one of us.
abstract7
541 posts
 
I'm looking forward to the results as well. Gee, ask a question and become the one who has to answer it. I've been considering an upsampler, so this would be very interesting. It would also be curious to know the jitter on compared CDs. That's pretty difficult unless you have a Genesis time lens that reads the jitter counts (so I'm told--I don't own one). My guess is higher jitter CDs would have more improvement--the upsampling most likely works as a jitter correction engine as well.
redkiwi
1,092 posts
 
I just want to emphasize the point already made that any superiority of XRCDs is not due to there being more bits on the CD, they are of course red book standard like all other CDs. The bits issue is that it is a good idea during mixing and mastering to be working at a higher level than red book because the process will reduce resolution - ie. if you worked at red book level then the outcome would fail to achieve the maximimum resolution that red book is capable of. XRCD is by no means the only one to use higher bit rates during mastering, but the result is a better chance of high resolution. Furthermore, there is much more to the XRCD process than mastering at higher bit rates. The process of upsampling cannot increase resolution in the bit stream and so there is no redundancy between the two processes. That is, if XRCD mastering improves resolution before upsampling then it will have done so after upsampling. If the perceived difference is reduced following upsampling then this is more likely to be due to jitter differences between XRCD and standard discs - ie. the upsampler narrows the gap between them.
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