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Creative Cabling for Bass Quality

I originally posted this in a thread about improving the bass quality of Legacy Classic speakers, but I suspect other speaker owners might benefit from what eventually worked best for bass with the Classics.

It all began with me feeling the bass of my Legacy Classics lacked a bit of definition. Tightening loose screws on the woofers, tilting the speakers back a few degrees, and playing with room placement all helped, but not enough (I also tried plugging the ports, as one Audiogoner suggested, but thought the bass sounded terribly constipated). I biwired, and that helped too, but not enough.

I next tried biamping and found that tubes so sweetened the top end I didn't care for awhile about low end imperfections. As luck would have it, my Proceed preamp offered stereo sub output, and allowed a setting of 120hz -- thus matching the Classics’ low crossover point. Assigning my McCormack power amp to driving the woofers alone helped tighten the bass too, yet I still wasn't happy.

Next I wondered if bass-specific wiring might help. I had been using high end MIT cables for all, but now decided to use it only for the mid and upper ranges. After some experimentation I reasoned that speedy silver for the bass end might help tighten things, so I tried Signal Cable’s Silver Resolutions, and wala! . . . bass did indeed tighten significantly; further, despite warnings from some, I noticed absolutely no synch problems from using different cables for lows and mid/highs. Thinking a cable with more silver might work even better, I tried 12g pure silver, but lost the quickness (and then some) the Signals provided. I surmised that the skin effect rendered those particular thick silver cables sluggish.

I put the Signal Cable Silver Resolutions back in, and for a time lived happily with that set up (i.e., Silver Resolutions on bottom, MIT on mid/top). But being an avid jazz listener, in due course I missed the bass "weight" that the Silver Resolutions sacrifice to get bass quickness.

Hmmmmmm, what to try. I wondered if thick, flat copper like that found in Analysis Plus cables might help, and since a pair of Oval 9s were selling cheap here at Audiogon, I tried them. Sure enough, they added major bass weight, but completely annulled the quickness of the Silver Resolutions! Grrrrrrrrrr.

And here's when the best thing happened.

I had ordered the Silver Resolutions terminated with banana plugs, while the Analysis Plus Oval 9s sported spades; the posts for bass on the Classics, of course, allow for both spades and bananas, so I hooked BOTH the Signals and Analysis Plus cables to the bass-end set of posts, and then to my McCormack.

All I could do was sigh with satisfaction when I heard it. Exactly the effortlessly quick and weighty bass I'd imagined possible from the Legacys. And now many hours of listening later, I am still unreservedly content with that cabling arrangement. The only tweaking thoughts I've had is trying Oval 8s if I ever see a bargain, and possibly trying silver ICs between the preamp and McCormack someday (I’m using Audio Metallurgy GA-0 ICs now . . . actually I wish AM would make some silver GA-0s, I think their magnetic technology is a very effective concept).
les3547
les3547 OP
22 posts
 
Hi 2chnlben,

You might have missed in my post that I did attempt that. After trying the Silver Resolutions, I switched them out for pure 12g silver cables. I got a little more bass weight, but I lost every bit of the definition I'd obtained from the Silver Resolutions. Personally I don't think heavy gauge silver is very well suited for any speaker application.

The pure copper 9g cables alone gave great weight, but little definition; when combined with the Silver Resolutions, both weight and definition showed up.

Here's how I analyzed what happens. The pure silver 12g is so thick it slows down whatever quickness silver can contribute.

Next, look at the amount of silver vs. copper in the final configuration (Oval 9s + Silver Resolutions). Frank at Signal states the "effective gauge" of his cable is 12, with 8 strands of it copper, and 4 strands silver. He doesn't say if all strands are of equal gauge, but let's assume they are. That would mean only 1/3 of the total 12g of his cable is silver; further, they are not a single strand, but four thin woven strands. Finally, we have another 9g of pure copper when the Oval 9s are added to the mix.

To me it makes sense intuitively. Bass weight can handle and needs lots of copper, but definition is a more refined dynamic. Too much silver slows down conduction, especially solid core thick silver, but just the right measure, broken down into small wires, promotes silver quickness.

Of course, I realize an "intuitive" concept like mine can be ugly wrong, but no matter what, I can state confidently that a bit of silver conducted through several slim wires in combination with lots of copper equals a full bass experience of definition and weight respectively.
palerider
46 posts
 
Want to improve bass performance? Get some thick* solid copper and make up some solid speakercables.
*thick begins at 10awg;)

Be aware that the copper needs to be massages at high power level to open up, one hour of massage does alot.
les3547 OP
22 posts
 
Palerider,

I think you either forgot to read my opening post or, since this thread features a three-part idea, maybe I didn't explain it clearly.

The first part of the idea is, in a biwired or biamped situation, to use the bass side of your biwirable speakers' binding posts to connect TWO separate wires TO THE SAME POST, one wire using spade connecters, and a second wire using the binding post's banana plug connection (of course, it is possible to connect two spades to one post, or with a banana plug adapter to connect two bananas to one post).

The second part of the idea is to recognize that wiring can affect bass in two major ways: bass "weight," or that ability to cause a listener to feel the umph of a note; and bass "definition,' or the ability of a woofer to generate distinct notes with each clearly defined from the note before and after it.

The third part of the idea was that the two connections to the bass side of biwirable speakers allows one to use specific wires for each bass aspect. That is, as I said in my opening post, I found that connecting 9g copper (using spades) generated weighty bass, and a relatively small amount of silver (using the banana connection) added definition . . . thus giving a method for improving bass by wiring for BOTH bass aspects.
2chnlben
595 posts
 
Les:

That's interesting. Say I want to run an additional (different) run to the bass end of the speaker's posts. I am utilizing one amplifier. I am already running multiple pairs of the same cable type in a bi-wire configuration (double "shotgun" on both top and bottom). If I were to add an additional run to the "bass end", I would have to increase the number of wires at the amplifier. Do you suggest utilizing both spades AND bananas at the amp as well? Is it possible to overdue the "doubling-up" of cables at the amp end (degrading the signal flow in any way)?? Of course, I can experiment. I could remove the current double runs at the bass end and include just the Silver Solutions (or similar). Currently, I have all four runs per speaker terminated with one spade connector at the amp end. Would there be any real benefit to terminating everything (all different type runs/cables with one connector at the amp end).
les3547 OP
22 posts
 
Hi 2chnlben,

Yes, you have to double up at the amp too. I just realized that people already biwiring might have a space problem (at the amp) if they are using two cables instead of a single one prepared for biwiring. (Since I BIAMP I therefore have plenty of room for using my SS amp for the bass cabling arrangement I'm talking about.)

I've used a type of banana plug adapter thingy like this . . . http://www.speakerrepair.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=32-076-10&Category_Code=all_plugs . . . to hook up more wires than the amp has space for. I think there are better quality ones than at that site as well. But I do use spades and bananas at both the amp end and speaker end since it is the least messy and easiest to install.

Regarding degrading the signal, I have no way to know if using multiple wires are less efficient than a single wire made up with the same copper-silver mix as described in the two-wire approach. I have only heard improvements by doing what I am doing. But if I had to guess, I suspect a single connection would be at least a little better, it's just that all bass-dedicated wiring I've seen is REALLY expensive, and I wonder if they use as much copper, along with silver, as I have in my set up.

The great thing about Audiogon is opportunity to grab up stuff owners don't want anymore, plus the cottage industries that service here. Balanced Power Technology, Audio Metallurgy, Signal Cable . . . all these people make great stuff at a price that is fair.

So for under $400 you can put together some used Analysis Plus Oval 9s, and Silver Resolutions (cheaper if you can ever find them used), and have a great dedicated bass cable system.
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