Sakura Systems OTA Cable Kit

Slawney:

I had thought the OTA insulation to be Teflon (when soldering the OTA the insulation has a very high melting point, like that of Teflon).

I had the OTA cryo treated through Kimber. The only thing I know is that they did take the gauge into consideration when doing it. Ray Kimber I thought would know what he was doing.

If the OTA had been Cryo treated initially it would not have made a diff.. From what I have read from others having it go through a Cryo treatment a second time enhances the results. This has been written by those who have Cryo'd Outlets.

I had thought that the reason that OTA was different or had different sonic characteristics than other cables was because of the Die it is run through. I guess no one but Yoshi and the Wire Manf. that ran it would be able to tell you what is actually going on for cetain.

I know a Metallurgist that might be willing to work on a test using inexpensive cables in order to see what exactly is going on with Cryo and weather it is feasible to bring up the sonic quality. It should be intresting.

If there is enhanced conductivity that explains the effect. I know that there is longer lasting Decay of Cymbals and High freq. instruments. This was testing and impressions .Both my new speakers and the other speaker I had previously use the same Tweeters. Might it be the activity of the XO's also? There is more breakin to do ,but I am very impressed by what is happening thus far.Wish I had more cable to use with my SS speakers internal wiring.

Next I will change the values of the Caps along with the Manfs. of the Caps\Resistors in the Tweeter XO's to bring the performance up another notch.

Anything you can tell me would be appreciated or if I can add anything you want to know ask!
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The following was posted somewhere else at A-Gon
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47Labs OTA Cable Kit:
It might not be for everyone, but it turned out to be a jewel of a deal for myself.

I was within days of buying the first of several cables for my system and I was lucky enough to had gone to A-Gon to see what was going on in used cable. Someone had just put up the OTA kit for around half the new price because they did not like what it did in their system and I immediately mailed him. He had taken it off right after or before he read my mail to increase the price, but he was so disenchanted with it he decided to just sell it to me.

Since buying the cable I have made all the IC's, made a run to my main speakers and had my newly designed speakers wired with it. All for a fraction of what it might have cost if I were to buy separate cables for my system. The only place I do not have it is between my Transport and DAC.

The thing that really made it worth it was the fact that Yoshi's new speakers (Konus Audio Essence) or the replica's of his speaker made from Carolina's(?) look like the NEAR speaker drivers that use to be used in my cabinets making synergy less of an issue.
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/47lab/shigaraki3.html

Since getting my new speakers online wired with the OTA I have noticed some great traits of which I might not have had if not for wiring the internals with it. For one it has made decay of instraments better than I have ever had with any of the other speakers I have had in my listening room. I have had PSB's,Magnepans and other NEARs.The new drivers are true of the presentation of different instruments also.The nost apparent of these are Cymbals.Love the long decay and true to life emphasis which is given now.Another trait is the disappearing of the speakers. I have never had speakers that completely not show themselves making the music. At no time do I hear anything which tells me a sound is coming from a driver. The Maggies never did this and they were the most transparent speakers I ever owned up to now. Well then again the NEAR M15's I think betterd them,but it was kinda a coin toss.

Anyhow the OTA Cable has been a godsend for my purposes and I hope others might find suitable cables for their setup.

Note:The Tweeters have Cryo'd OTA running to them and the Amp-Pre IC is also Cryo's with Eichmann Plugs used.

I will still try out another Digital Cable soon with my Belden as a reference to beat.

Dekay: good to hear from you in so long. The identity of the OTA insulation can be a confusing issue. Sakura Systems listed it as "teflon" in an old information sheet for the "open technology" cable kit. But recently another 47 Labs distributor confirmed to me that it was polyethylene.
As you probably know, polyethylene is the most popular plastic in the world--used for grocery bags, shampoo bottles, children's toys, even bullet proof vests. As to what type of polyethylene OTA insulation is, I do not know whether it is branched-low-density (LDPE) or linear (HDPE) or some other variety. Nor do I know if OTA insulation is made by free radical vinyl polymerization, Zieger-Natta polymerization, or metallocene catalysis polymerization. From the physical features of the OTA jacket, my vote goes for branched-low density with some type of dye, which means that the OTA insulation jacket has some irregularities that will affect the sound, irregularities that are only partiallly overcome by break-in and cryogenization. I do not think that the blue-green dye is meant to enhance the performance of the cable, but that it is used to give the cable an attractive color.
The fact that I can get the OTA insulation to melt already at 280 degrees C shows that it is not teflon. Teflon has a melting point of 327 degrees C. Also, OTA insulation does not undergo "cold flow" like teflon.
Abex, I do not doubt that there can be benefits from a second cryogenic treatment. My question was directed more at the specifics of the actual procedure and how you arranged it, since it is unlikely that any of us can do this at home.
Upgrading speaker crossover components is a rewarding modification route: the chokes on the woofer and the capacitors on the tweeter are the most important to upgrade in a two-way crossover. Another good tweak is to leave the crossover outside of the cabinet on a stand of its own midway between the amp and the speaker cabinet. This reduces microphonics that will make a speaker sound more distorted and unnatural.

Slawney
I will share the following msg, I recieved just today from Charles Beresford of Cryogenics Intl.. I have been trying to findout as much as possible about the effects of the cryo process might have on audio components especially cables.What really disturbs or perplexes me is the fact that no long range studies have been made of the ill effects this process might have or even the benefits of it except for testimonials.

Robert Crump is one that I trust who has one bad experience with what it did with a set of expensive speaker cables.After his experience I was concerned with what effects might taken place with the OTA.
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My Questions:
Hello:
I read your post at AA and was wondering about a few things.

1.Do you know if there have been any detailed studies of what has not been done successfully in cryo for Audio and stuff that has a high failure rate?Trying to avoid the pitfalls of others.

2.Have there been treated and untrested test done for Measurements as well as listening test?

3.Do you take the Gauge of the wires into consideration and adjust for it when doing the process?

4.Have there been test done on Plated and Silver Cables?

5.What about doing the process twice on Cables,does that further enhance the effect or performance?

I know you have been in the Biz since the 80's and is there any performance test that have been done is what I am trying to find out.
Robert Crump had a set of expensive Cables that I think were plated that got ruined by having the process done.

I had some 47Labs Cables ,which are copper, croy'd by Ray Kimber's facility and they came back undamaged and they might have been cryo'd initially in Japan.They are approx.24ga. and I do not know if that is taken into consideration before being cryo'd.Should this be taken into consideration?

I am trying to also see if taking a inexpensive cable and having it cryo'd can bring it's performance up to ultra expensive cables. Has this been done in your experience?

I am at the moment corresponding with a knowledgable metallurgist discussing testing to find cable that can advanced using this technique.

What can you tell me, any help is appreciated!I know your time is valuable and I am not looking for long elaborate answers.Short answers would be helpful and I will take it from there.

We will consider sending the Cable to you when we narrow down our choices in the future seeing that your prices are reasonable and you have exstensive experience using the process.

Thanks!
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His Reply

Thank you for your message. With regards to audio applications, there are not really any technical studies. It seems that no matter what is shown scientifically, in the audio world, listening is the only thing that matters. I have some research studies regarding materials, i.e. polymers, steels, etc. You could then apply those results to the same type materials in audio applications.

There is really no determining factor to let you know what may have a problem during processing. In general, our process does not cause failures in most any part. We process entire boards, cables, tubes, etc. I will list some guidelines below.

1. plastic that is under pressure or stress ( like a clamped down hard plastic case) could crack. This is because there is no tolerance for movement during the process.

2. Very old, dried out plastic may crack due to having no elasticity.

It is not the type of polymer, it is the condition that it is in, that may cause a crack. We generally do not see any problems with new cables or materials. Again, whole boards, capacitors, cables, plug strips, tubes, cds, etc. all processed every week with great results.

The gauge of the wire has nothing to due with our computerized process. The process is all about removing the BTUs or heat energy out of the products being treated.

We have not experienced any problems with plated and/or pure conductors of any type. We process solid silver wire and cables all the time. Silversmith Audio process all of their cables with very good results.

Some people say that two times in the process is great. I do not have any data to support this. I will process your items any way or as many times as you desire. The customer gets the process desired.

You should not have any fear of treating plated cables with us. We process plated cables, outlets, plugs, connectors all the time with only improvement.

I really have no idea what has been treated before I receive it and what hasn't. Processing your items more than once will not harm them. Since we do not charge a great deal for our process, if you are not sure, just have it processed.

Some people do say that you can take a less expensive cable, have it treated and it will make dramatic improvements. Our process will make good cables sound very transparent.

I have attached some information to this message. Please call or email me if you have any questions.

Best Regards,
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The info into what you have provided concerning you eval of the OTA is intresting. I will have some questions after I am avle to think about what you have written further,thanks!

Slawney just to add:
I went through Bolder Cables who sent it (OTA) to Ray Kimber facility in Utah when having my ART DAC modified in order to see what effects the treatment might have.

I used a set of untreated sets of OTA terminated with Eichmann plugs . I tried a few combo’s to see what the effects of cryo might have on playback. I also used sets of Belden Digital to test. These were listening test and I had no measurements done as I do not have any test equiptment available to me at the moment.

The best I can describe what I have found is in the word Presence. It finally came to me when comparing the Belden’s that on Classical guitar the plucks were more distinct using the cryo treated cables.

I still think that whatever or whoever you choose to do the treatment it is wise not to treat anything you do not want to take the risk of damaging. Weather it be Cables, Capacitors ,Transformers or a hairbrush.

I do not think I will have the Caps, Inductors or Resistors Cryo’d that will be used in the upgraded crossover parts for risk of damage. Kharma is said to use cryo’d components upon request for it series of speakers which is said to Lower the noise floor,but as always there is no info provided on how they established that claim.