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TRELJA in New York, 2002

Well, another Stereophile NYC HiFi Show has taken place. For the second consecutive year, I attended. Like last year, I feel obliged to share my impressions on what I saw.

Before I get to the gear, I have a few general comments about the Show. Unlike like last year, when I attended on Saturday, this year, I went on Friday. My decision was to try and garner a better insight and listening position than the mob scene that was there on Saturday last year. The crowds were still impressive, however. But, I am sure Saturday was much more hectic. I could have also attended Saturday, as I was still in the city, and had 4 Day Passes. Also, I was there with my fiance.

I do believe those two things shifted my perspective on the Show; as I had a different feeling this year. However, my thoughts are that part of this may also be the state of the high end industry. I do hope that I am wrong, but I my impressions were that high end audio has lost a good bit of its zip over the past year. Yes, I know this is the truth. The economy has had a long, drawn out malaise, and audio equipment has not sold as briskly as it did two years ago. 2000 was probably the highwater mark. Audiogon was much more vibrant then. As were sales. As was the overall energy. And, we as a society are still not what we were before the barbaric events of September 11th.

My apologies for wasting this much space so far...

On to the sound!

If I have cast a pallor over the Show, that was not my intention. Many will be surprised to hear that my thoughts on what I heard are overwhelmingly positive. True! Unlike last year, where I was able to clearly identify several rooms with bad sound, that was really not the case this time.

In fact, please allow me to give my "Worst Sound of Show" award straight away. I don't think I will have too many people chasing me with blood in their eyes this time. It's Sony. Yes, after regretting for an entire year about missing Sony's Multichannel SACD Demo, I was able to sit in this time. Tickets are required for the 30 minute event, and I am told many are not able to get them. We got our tickets, walked around for the hour before our time. Ancillary equipment in the Sony demo were Manley Retro 250 monoblocks, and the revised Eggleston Andra speakers. An Eggleston subwoofer was also in use, although it should be unnecessary. In brief, the sound was nothing to have to wait for. The demo itself it nothing to have to wait for. The whole thing creates the anticipation we will encounter the best sound ever. I did not encounter any such thing. Or, even close. Things were OK, but if this is the Great Hope to save high end, we are being told to follow a false messiah.

I do think my feelings toward this demo are a function of my take on multichannel overall. As I got the same impression from all the multichannel rooms. What I always hear from the people who trumpet multichannel is "the hall", the sound of being at the live event, etc. I don't get that impression. At all. I feel as if I in a very artificial environment. As if my perspective is that I am in the middle of the band, only the band members are all 20 feet from one another. Me in the center. The sound coming from the front of me is fine. However, sound coming from either side, or the rear is not convincing. Or, even good. Not natural, in my opinion.

The reality is that this will probably become the standard of good sound. The audio press tells everyone it is so. And, judging from the success of DVD/HT, and the people's opinions who listen to it(the average guy), this is IT. I don't fear being in the minority...

One more mention of what I hear to be bad sound. Same as last year. Atma Sphere, pairing with the horn speaker company. I should really make it a point to remember their name(Classic Sound Reproductions? Classic something). Especially, if I am going to rip them two years in a row. Now, I am a big fan of Atma Sphere. I KNOW their amps are great. I know they can sound good. I even heard a track in the room this year that was almost decent. But, the sound coming out is mostly very, very bad. The horns are horrendous. Colored, resonant, congested. Destroying all of the magic that a great OTL amp, like Atma Sphere, creates. They do play loud. But, I guess I can use the reactions of my fiance as the indicator of a normal person. Like most people, she offers a reaction within a second or two. She walked out. Immediately. With the same expression a child does after a taste of anchovies. I stayed for a little while. Trying to hear some Atma Sphere magic through the haze of these horns. One cut did it. I could hear some inkling of greatness through the fog.

I have no idea why Atma Sphere doesn't see this as well. They are hurting themselves by being at the Show.

While I am on the subject of sound that could have been better, I should mention some brands who I like, but didn't put their best foot forward at the Show. Triangle. They do not know how to show their speakers. I am convinced of it. Like last year, they sound decidely mass - fi. They really are better than this. Pairing with Cairn also makes me wonder what the story is. Is it not interesting how Sam Tellig will spend two months on a company which no one in the US has really encountered before? They then show up with Triangle, whom Sam is the ultimate cheerleader for. Stereophile has been discussed here at Audiogon over the past two months, and this is the kind of thing that everyone gets mad about. My personal opinions of European gear is well known, but I am starting to wonder why Sam Tellig shares my views. Questions should be raised about how he is conducting himself.

Musical Fidelity could have also sounded better. They didn't really mate well with the room. Or, with Monitor Audio Loudspeakers. Kevro's David Solomon proved to be a more than congenial host. I offered a personal thank you to him for pointing me in the right direction to finding my Musical Fidelity NuVista interconnects two months ago. Sadly, he informed me that MF is getting out of the cable business. Believe me, there are many a cable I can list as being inferior to the NuVista products. All of them, a heck of a lot more money.

Linn. I am not sure if they want to demonstrate their sound, or the fact that they are big into HT and/or home convenience. They moved even further away from high end audio this year, going for a more "holistic" entertainment approach. Not that their sound was bad(not great), it was better than last year. But, they seem to be moving in the direction of Sharp and Zenith.

Now, the "Best of Show". I have to really take my hat off to the Joseph Audio/Manley room. It was really very good sound. Yes, the components were expensive. Most of the components at the Show are. They managed to separate themselves from everyone else. Part of it was getting the right room for them. Part of it was the fact that the new Joseph Pearl speakers are wonderful. While I like Manley, I have to say the reason things worked so well was the Joseph speakers, and the room they coupled with. Speaker to room interaction has to be the most underrated and most important relationship in the audio chain. Bravo, EveAnna Manley and Jeff Joseph!

Now, for some companies that I REALLY thought put out good sound. Just not "Best of Show".

Roman Audio loudspeakers. Again, like last year the best kept secret in audio. Electronics were different this year, but the sound was similar. Smooth, liquid, relaxed, warm, natural. What a series crossover offers. While I am on it, recent Joseph Audio speakers(like the Pearl) are implementing some series crossover topology in with the Infinite Slope technology. I am now a very big fan of Roman, having proven their merits to me twice. In very different rooms, with different ancillary components. My only fear is that I would need to prove that the speakers are not insensitive to the components feeding them. Not that I wouldn't be happy, as this is the kind of sound I crave. But, others should be warned. Those who prefer the cool, crystalline, or analytical sound should go in another direction.

Balanced Audio Technology. Not just in one, but in TWO rooms! One room solid state, one room tube(with the AirFoil speakers - not bad at all in the small room). Again, different ancillary components, but still great sonics. Natural, grainless, effortless. This is what high end is supposed to sound like. Like music. Steve Bednarski was the most cordial host at the Show. Whereas, most people have to be approached before talking to the public, Steve went out of his way to introduce himself to everyone, share a genuine conversation, and thank them for coming. Victor Khomenko was also splendid. As their company is local to me, their products are without question, and they are great guys, I really should buy something from BAT. Recommended to ALL audiophiles!

Rogue. Much better choice in speakers this year. Last year, they paired with Audio Physic. While I am definitely in the minority with my feelings about the combination, I have to be honest. I find the sound terrible. Bringing out the worst in Rogue. Cold, bright, sterile, thin. This year, Rogue mated with Meadowlark, and things definitely improved for the better. Much warmer, more natural, and full sounding. Mark O'Brien is a great guy. And, like BAT, a local company to me. As I am in the market for a new power amp for my second system, I think it will be the Rogue 88 Magnum. In my opinion, the Rogue Magnum Series is as good as almost anything sold. At the price, it is a no brainer. A component that should not be labelled a great budget amp, but a great amp. I would feel a bit of disappointment in not picking up an Atma Sphere or BAT, but I can only buy one amp. For a second system, money comes into play a good deal, and the Rogue takes a back seat to only the finest products. Mark O'Brien offered an invitation to my fiance to pick up the amp at their place, and take a grand tour of Rogue. That assumes we buy the Magnum.

Legend. I am still flabbergasted that the Legend Starlet integrated is a Class C Component on the Stereophile Recommended list. Even when the scale was more true(before JA), this would have certainly merited a Class B rating. Today, when just about anything from Musical Fidelity is Class A, the ranking of Legend is not an insult, it is an act of treachery. Coupled with the pyramidal monitors, the sound of the Legend monoblocks was rich, real, and ideal. Every experience I have had with Legend has been nothing but positive. This is a good marque.

Wilson Audio. Yes, I am on record for speaking negatively of the WATT/Puppies, but they sounded splendid. A good room helped.

The funniest thing I saw was Roy Hall performing the ultimate tweak. Consuming whiskey(Scotch, I would think) in the Creek/Music Hall room. That will make any system sound warm, rich, and ripe. Roy is a funny guy. Would love to work with him, I bet he makes every day seem like a vacation. I am disappointed about the $249 Music Hall tuner he believes he will not be offering. His feelings are that tuners are not a good seller these days, and he would need to import a few hundred in order to make the buy. I personally would make sure he sells one. If there are any others who have enough faith in Roy Hall and want a nice tuner at a great price, perhaps we can take up the cause. We could all write him, maybe that would be enough to get him to go for it. Let me know.

Jimmie Lee Robinson gave us a serenade. About an hour before he started to play for real. They don't make them like that anymore. The weird thing is that I almost bought a CD of his last week. I guess I have to go through with the purchase now. Buying it at the Show would have had it personalized.

Special mention to a super restaurant, Churascaria Plataforma. An all you can eat Brazilian bar b que. As they say, "Meat as it was meant to be!" Not for PETA members. One of the three great meals of my life. I can still taste it. Expensive, but everyone should try it, once.

Thanks to Stereophile for another Show!
trelja
brunhilde
23 posts
 
Flyboy9999 write: Best video product; The DLP based Infocus projector for $5k

That was my impression too. I was very surprised to find the best picture at the show from a relatively inexpensive projector together with hardware (NAD, PSB) that were quite inexpensive. I didn't look at that many video demos (only had 9 hours), but it was better than the Krell/Farouja.
lugnut
1,190 posts
 
Trelja,

Thanks for the report. We in the boondocks appreciate it. I also found Hififarm's comments interesting concerning DVD audio. The most telling comment was regarding the recordings being a labor of love. If more artists, producers, engineers took this approach I would be a happy man. All the new whiz-bang gizmos will never be able to fix a compromized recording session. Garbage in, garbage out.

I applaud equipment manufacturers for keepin on keepin on in spite of the lack of overall committment in the software side of our hobby.

Thanks again for the post. It's was informative and well written.

Happy listening,
Patrick
tfta
44 posts
 
Hi Everyone!

It has been interesting reading all of your comments on the show. It seems that everyone who posted had a great time and was glad they were there. I had a ball this year and was very excited by the number of attendees, most of whom seemed to be enjoying themselves a great deal as well. I can tell you that the feeling in our room was overwhelmingly positive throughout the show.

I'd like to respond to a few posts, but before I do I would ask you to consider in contemplating what you heard at the show that the larger rooms are more difficult to tame, especially in the time allotted. Unsound wisely pointed out what a different experience he had visiting the Tact room at various times and leaving with a different impression depending on where he was seated and how many other people were in the room. Grandpad mentioned the same thing about the Merlin/Joule Electra room, with the extreme experiences of being dissappointed the first time and understanding why this is one of the most highly regarded combinations in the business the next!!! Well Grandpad, imagine taking what you experienced in their room to one of the large rooms. The extremes are even further apart. The larger rooms are more difficult to integrate the speakers into in the short set-up time allotted and the nodes and points of reflection take more time to sort out as well. We voiced our room for 3 out of 24 chairs and often had more people standing than sitting during our demonstrations. Not only does that totally change the characteristics of the room, but imagine the difference in sound experienced by someone in the sweet spot as opposed to someone 5'6 surrounded by people 5'10 in one of the back corners! I don't want to sound like I'm being defensive, just offering some food for thought.

Natalie, Roy did have the new CD player at the show, but I didn't get a chance to hear it. His MMF-25 is an incredible value, as is every other product he offers. Based on that alone I'm willing to bet it's going to be great. After I've had a chance to hear it I'll follow up with you.

Brunhilde, the Savoys were being run with only the new CAT JL-3 monos. They were bi-wired, not bi-amped. The other two amps you saw were running the center and rear channels of the video portion of the system.

Flyboy, you mentioned that you liked the sound of the CAT amps and pre, but not the Eggleston Speakers. I was wondering how you came to this conclusion?

Thank you to everyone who took the time to stop and introduce yourselves to me. It was a great pleasure to meet so many of you and to be part of such a successful event.

Regards,
Mario
unsound
7,315 posts
 
Mario, I have to agree with you re: seat placement, relative stature (I'm the 5'6" guy) and the inordinate # of people sharing the listening experience. Obviously the point of the show is to get comparitive impressions and perhaps speak with the designers, not for serious auditions. I do disagre with you re: relative room size. I thought many of the smaller rooms may have suffered from early reflections too little spacing between speaker to speaker and speaker to listener. The close proximity of rear channels may be why I didn't care for the multi channel exhibits (very distracting and unnatural). On the other hand I found the larger rooms to suffer less from crowding and to offer better presentations despite the often seen artificial rear walls. The smaller rooms could not fit much room treatment. Even TacT used a tiny bit of room treatment in thier rather large room.
trelja OP
3,223 posts
 
Well, it seems like a distant memory to us right now, but Stereophile has entered the fray with this year's Stereophile NYC HiFi report.

I am happy to see Wes Phillips contributing more. I think he is an excellent reviewer. In my opinion, Wes is well written, entertaining, and does a good job in conveying the sound of a component.

It seems as if Stereophile and us are mostly in agreement. The sound this year was good almost across the board. There are some differences in our reviews. Mine is a hack job, hammered out from whatever I can remember upon logging in to Audiogon after my return home. It's a wonder I don't throw something in about the Mr. Softee truck parked outside, definitely a highlight. People in NYC or Philadelphia will understand - everyone else will think all manner of crude things. The professionals take the task much more seriously, and take notes, pictures, use a digital voice recorder, have meetings and an itinerary, etc.

Another difference between us is how things can be presented. We will both sing the praises of a room that has great sound. But, I have never read a show report in Stereophile that said anything negative. If it isn't glowing, it will just list the components, ancillaries, and maybe some prices.

As the impressions of me and my fellow Audiogon members have been previously submitted, they can be contrasted to the opinions of Stereophile. It seemed we members are very much in agreement this year. Mostly good sound, some great sound, and a couple of poor sounding rooms.

The Joseph Audio/Manley room fared very well in everyone's opinion. Personally, I think a significant reason was the room and the speakers. Excellent match, and not possible in most show rooms.

The Wilson/VTL room was also universally praised. I have not been a fan of late of the WATT/Puppies, but this is a new revision. Good sound is good sound. I have to give the devil his due, this was better than good sound. The room was big, which Wilsons need. Excellent move. They did a great job in presenting their product.

Some others were Roman Audio and BAT. I did think that Legend Audio was really nice, and wonder if there is anything between Legend and Stereophile. I guess I overreact to the Class C Rating. Audiogoners checked in quite enthusiastically, yet Stereophile paid them little space. On the plus, they did throw a picture in of the speakers, but could it be because they were really showing off the Wilson Benesch, which most of the Stereophile reviewers mentioned?

Speaking of Wilson Benesch, they garnered praise from every direction in the Stereophile coverage. I can't comment, as I really didn't give them much of a listen. But, the amount of praise might be a bit over the top. Any opinions of Wilson Benesch at the Show?

We did disagree on some fronts. Most importantly was the MBL room. Mentioned in superlative terms at several junctures of the Stereophile coverage. I forgot to write about it previously, but I found the sound quite bad. Very unnatural. Bass with boom, probably a result of the bandpass alignment. Midrange that did not integrate well whatsoever, in addition to being harsh. Screechy, irritating highs. The best description I can use for the overall sound of the speaker is unnatural. Yes, the looks are love them or hate them. Personally, I love them. But, I do not like the sound, at all.

Atma Sphere/Classic Audio Reproductions room opinions seemed more or less universal here on Audiogon. Horrendous. Yet heaped with lavish praise by more than one Stereophile reviewer. I really cannot explain this. As I said, I don't expect Stereophile to trash the room, but they don't need to throw out these kind of superlatives either. I cannot say they do not know good sound, because they do. But, outside of their review, most people clearly thought it was dreck. And, I know that Stereophile is not in bed with Atma Sphere, as I cannot remember any recent ads or reviews on either party's side.

The Sony/Manley/Eggleston room was tremendously underwhelming to me. 5.1 channels of put me to sleep sound. I can only wrench at the cost of this system. Figure something like $10K/speaker + sub + maybe $5K/amp. Whew, maybe upwards of $100,000? Many an audiophile could best this for about $2500. But, we all know what is going on here, it's SACD and Sony.

The Blue Circle power amp pumps and preamp purse are ridiculous. Period. I am disappointed that they get so much positive press. I fear Gilbert Yeung may actually read all of the press clippings, and waste his talent on this type of folly.

Next, a brand that I admire, but like Atma Sphere, have not sound good at a show. Triangle. Very unnatural. Congested sound. Classic case of the box getting in the way of the sound. Praised by several at Stereophile. One quote even went so far as to call it "most realistic orchestral sound of speaker I heard at the Show that cost $3000 or less." Huh?!?

I may be in the minority on this one, but I am not so fond of Dynaudio's latest efforts. I find the sound dry and uninvolving. I don't feel much emotion there. Not the kind of speaker I could ever love. Vanilla, white. They really make no statement, which one could argue is the ultimate statement. Then, there is the price... It may be just a function of me tending toward a more romantic sound. As I said, maybe it's me, a lot of people seem to love Dynaudio. If this was a different company, I would probably rip them as being boring and way overpriced, but I have a lot of fond memories for what can come from Dynaudio kits, drivers, and the like.

I do wonder why Musical Fidelity didn't get more ink. Basically, just got what most companies got. MF is beyond being a Stereophile darling. I am a big fan, but it is definitely not the last word in audio. Not even close. Well, maybe it's coming next month.

All in all, I must say the writers this month have done a yeoman's job. Hopefully, next month will bring more of the same
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