TRELJA in New York, 2002


Well, another Stereophile NYC HiFi Show has taken place. For the second consecutive year, I attended. Like last year, I feel obliged to share my impressions on what I saw.

Before I get to the gear, I have a few general comments about the Show. Unlike like last year, when I attended on Saturday, this year, I went on Friday. My decision was to try and garner a better insight and listening position than the mob scene that was there on Saturday last year. The crowds were still impressive, however. But, I am sure Saturday was much more hectic. I could have also attended Saturday, as I was still in the city, and had 4 Day Passes. Also, I was there with my fiance.

I do believe those two things shifted my perspective on the Show; as I had a different feeling this year. However, my thoughts are that part of this may also be the state of the high end industry. I do hope that I am wrong, but I my impressions were that high end audio has lost a good bit of its zip over the past year. Yes, I know this is the truth. The economy has had a long, drawn out malaise, and audio equipment has not sold as briskly as it did two years ago. 2000 was probably the highwater mark. Audiogon was much more vibrant then. As were sales. As was the overall energy. And, we as a society are still not what we were before the barbaric events of September 11th.

My apologies for wasting this much space so far...

On to the sound!

If I have cast a pallor over the Show, that was not my intention. Many will be surprised to hear that my thoughts on what I heard are overwhelmingly positive. True! Unlike last year, where I was able to clearly identify several rooms with bad sound, that was really not the case this time.

In fact, please allow me to give my "Worst Sound of Show" award straight away. I don't think I will have too many people chasing me with blood in their eyes this time. It's Sony. Yes, after regretting for an entire year about missing Sony's Multichannel SACD Demo, I was able to sit in this time. Tickets are required for the 30 minute event, and I am told many are not able to get them. We got our tickets, walked around for the hour before our time. Ancillary equipment in the Sony demo were Manley Retro 250 monoblocks, and the revised Eggleston Andra speakers. An Eggleston subwoofer was also in use, although it should be unnecessary. In brief, the sound was nothing to have to wait for. The demo itself it nothing to have to wait for. The whole thing creates the anticipation we will encounter the best sound ever. I did not encounter any such thing. Or, even close. Things were OK, but if this is the Great Hope to save high end, we are being told to follow a false messiah.

I do think my feelings toward this demo are a function of my take on multichannel overall. As I got the same impression from all the multichannel rooms. What I always hear from the people who trumpet multichannel is "the hall", the sound of being at the live event, etc. I don't get that impression. At all. I feel as if I in a very artificial environment. As if my perspective is that I am in the middle of the band, only the band members are all 20 feet from one another. Me in the center. The sound coming from the front of me is fine. However, sound coming from either side, or the rear is not convincing. Or, even good. Not natural, in my opinion.

The reality is that this will probably become the standard of good sound. The audio press tells everyone it is so. And, judging from the success of DVD/HT, and the people's opinions who listen to it(the average guy), this is IT. I don't fear being in the minority...

One more mention of what I hear to be bad sound. Same as last year. Atma Sphere, pairing with the horn speaker company. I should really make it a point to remember their name(Classic Sound Reproductions? Classic something). Especially, if I am going to rip them two years in a row. Now, I am a big fan of Atma Sphere. I KNOW their amps are great. I know they can sound good. I even heard a track in the room this year that was almost decent. But, the sound coming out is mostly very, very bad. The horns are horrendous. Colored, resonant, congested. Destroying all of the magic that a great OTL amp, like Atma Sphere, creates. They do play loud. But, I guess I can use the reactions of my fiance as the indicator of a normal person. Like most people, she offers a reaction within a second or two. She walked out. Immediately. With the same expression a child does after a taste of anchovies. I stayed for a little while. Trying to hear some Atma Sphere magic through the haze of these horns. One cut did it. I could hear some inkling of greatness through the fog.

I have no idea why Atma Sphere doesn't see this as well. They are hurting themselves by being at the Show.

While I am on the subject of sound that could have been better, I should mention some brands who I like, but didn't put their best foot forward at the Show. Triangle. They do not know how to show their speakers. I am convinced of it. Like last year, they sound decidely mass - fi. They really are better than this. Pairing with Cairn also makes me wonder what the story is. Is it not interesting how Sam Tellig will spend two months on a company which no one in the US has really encountered before? They then show up with Triangle, whom Sam is the ultimate cheerleader for. Stereophile has been discussed here at Audiogon over the past two months, and this is the kind of thing that everyone gets mad about. My personal opinions of European gear is well known, but I am starting to wonder why Sam Tellig shares my views. Questions should be raised about how he is conducting himself.

Musical Fidelity could have also sounded better. They didn't really mate well with the room. Or, with Monitor Audio Loudspeakers. Kevro's David Solomon proved to be a more than congenial host. I offered a personal thank you to him for pointing me in the right direction to finding my Musical Fidelity NuVista interconnects two months ago. Sadly, he informed me that MF is getting out of the cable business. Believe me, there are many a cable I can list as being inferior to the NuVista products. All of them, a heck of a lot more money.

Linn. I am not sure if they want to demonstrate their sound, or the fact that they are big into HT and/or home convenience. They moved even further away from high end audio this year, going for a more "holistic" entertainment approach. Not that their sound was bad(not great), it was better than last year. But, they seem to be moving in the direction of Sharp and Zenith.

Now, the "Best of Show". I have to really take my hat off to the Joseph Audio/Manley room. It was really very good sound. Yes, the components were expensive. Most of the components at the Show are. They managed to separate themselves from everyone else. Part of it was getting the right room for them. Part of it was the fact that the new Joseph Pearl speakers are wonderful. While I like Manley, I have to say the reason things worked so well was the Joseph speakers, and the room they coupled with. Speaker to room interaction has to be the most underrated and most important relationship in the audio chain. Bravo, EveAnna Manley and Jeff Joseph!

Now, for some companies that I REALLY thought put out good sound. Just not "Best of Show".

Roman Audio loudspeakers. Again, like last year the best kept secret in audio. Electronics were different this year, but the sound was similar. Smooth, liquid, relaxed, warm, natural. What a series crossover offers. While I am on it, recent Joseph Audio speakers(like the Pearl) are implementing some series crossover topology in with the Infinite Slope technology. I am now a very big fan of Roman, having proven their merits to me twice. In very different rooms, with different ancillary components. My only fear is that I would need to prove that the speakers are not insensitive to the components feeding them. Not that I wouldn't be happy, as this is the kind of sound I crave. But, others should be warned. Those who prefer the cool, crystalline, or analytical sound should go in another direction.

Balanced Audio Technology. Not just in one, but in TWO rooms! One room solid state, one room tube(with the AirFoil speakers - not bad at all in the small room). Again, different ancillary components, but still great sonics. Natural, grainless, effortless. This is what high end is supposed to sound like. Like music. Steve Bednarski was the most cordial host at the Show. Whereas, most people have to be approached before talking to the public, Steve went out of his way to introduce himself to everyone, share a genuine conversation, and thank them for coming. Victor Khomenko was also splendid. As their company is local to me, their products are without question, and they are great guys, I really should buy something from BAT. Recommended to ALL audiophiles!

Rogue. Much better choice in speakers this year. Last year, they paired with Audio Physic. While I am definitely in the minority with my feelings about the combination, I have to be honest. I find the sound terrible. Bringing out the worst in Rogue. Cold, bright, sterile, thin. This year, Rogue mated with Meadowlark, and things definitely improved for the better. Much warmer, more natural, and full sounding. Mark O'Brien is a great guy. And, like BAT, a local company to me. As I am in the market for a new power amp for my second system, I think it will be the Rogue 88 Magnum. In my opinion, the Rogue Magnum Series is as good as almost anything sold. At the price, it is a no brainer. A component that should not be labelled a great budget amp, but a great amp. I would feel a bit of disappointment in not picking up an Atma Sphere or BAT, but I can only buy one amp. For a second system, money comes into play a good deal, and the Rogue takes a back seat to only the finest products. Mark O'Brien offered an invitation to my fiance to pick up the amp at their place, and take a grand tour of Rogue. That assumes we buy the Magnum.

Legend. I am still flabbergasted that the Legend Starlet integrated is a Class C Component on the Stereophile Recommended list. Even when the scale was more true(before JA), this would have certainly merited a Class B rating. Today, when just about anything from Musical Fidelity is Class A, the ranking of Legend is not an insult, it is an act of treachery. Coupled with the pyramidal monitors, the sound of the Legend monoblocks was rich, real, and ideal. Every experience I have had with Legend has been nothing but positive. This is a good marque.

Wilson Audio. Yes, I am on record for speaking negatively of the WATT/Puppies, but they sounded splendid. A good room helped.

The funniest thing I saw was Roy Hall performing the ultimate tweak. Consuming whiskey(Scotch, I would think) in the Creek/Music Hall room. That will make any system sound warm, rich, and ripe. Roy is a funny guy. Would love to work with him, I bet he makes every day seem like a vacation. I am disappointed about the $249 Music Hall tuner he believes he will not be offering. His feelings are that tuners are not a good seller these days, and he would need to import a few hundred in order to make the buy. I personally would make sure he sells one. If there are any others who have enough faith in Roy Hall and want a nice tuner at a great price, perhaps we can take up the cause. We could all write him, maybe that would be enough to get him to go for it. Let me know.

Jimmie Lee Robinson gave us a serenade. About an hour before he started to play for real. They don't make them like that anymore. The weird thing is that I almost bought a CD of his last week. I guess I have to go through with the purchase now. Buying it at the Show would have had it personalized.

Special mention to a super restaurant, Churascaria Plataforma. An all you can eat Brazilian bar b que. As they say, "Meat as it was meant to be!" Not for PETA members. One of the three great meals of my life. I can still taste it. Expensive, but everyone should try it, once.

Thanks to Stereophile for another Show!
trelja

Showing 5 responses by trelja

Thanks to everyone for the feedback! I think a thread like this really belongs to us, and invites all to offer up their impressions. I am but one person, and certainly no authority.

It looks as if we all were on the same page with BAT and Joseph. Great sound from both of these fine companies!

In regards to the Atma Sphere/KAR room, it seems we are all in agreement. Sean, perhaps the horns need what you have recommended in the past, some horn "dampening". My impression is that they sound very hooty. It seems as if the horns are resonating to the point of fogging up the sound. The room they played in this year was of the same dimensions, and I believe it may have even been the same room. It is a high ticket affair, on the 2nd Floor. Where people like Sony, Wilson, Linn, and the Registration are. Maybe the speakers are different than those that sounded so good before.

A few things I have left out...

Coincident. Not sure why they were AWOL, but they were certainly missed. I am kind of at a loss to explain it, as I would think Coincident would be one of the healthier companies. More so than Legend, Innersound, etc. I planned on picking up a pair of speaker cables, but Israel was nowhere to be found. Actually, I was prepared for it, as I had read they wouldn't be showing earlier in the week.

I also missed Western Electric. Their 300B amp was the coolest looking amp of 2001. Even if they didn't play it. Not in attendance this year, at least I couldn't find them. Was really gassed at the sight of their amp last year. Too bad.

Blue Circle. Like Drewfidelity, I didn't get a chance to hear them in their room. I forget who they were showing with, but the "other" company(not one of note) was doing all the playing. Blue Circle did win my "Most Interesting Component", with a pair of blue high heel pumps that had mono block power amps built into them. Funny.

Anyway, as I have just purchased a Blue Circle BC3 preamp, they definitely have my vote as being a maker of great audio components. I feel their preamps are as good as things get in high end audio. I am sorry that others didn't get to hear the magic of Blue Circle.

Totem. As has been mentioned by Drewfidelity, Totem offered up some very nice sound. I have been around Totem for a long time now, as my friend sells their speakers. They had their stuff together at the Show. Which to me, would be a prerequisite of showing up in the first place.

Maybe I should take notes or something. But, doing all of this from memory causes me to miss as many as I hit. One brand I would like to mention, without remembering their name was a very unusual speaker company. They showed with a triode tube maker, and used a single whizzer cone. Their speakers were very well finished, and featured funny dimensions. About 3 1/2 feet wide X 4 feet tall X 6 inches deep(approximately). Very clear, fast, and fun sound. I know someone will remember these. They were in the bottomost floor. Saw the amps last year.

It may be me, but I really have to say that good sound was all over the place this year. Very, very few rooms were not good. And, even some of them were OK.

Like Musical Fidelity. I hope I didn't come across as MF sounding bad, they were not. They were just average. Triangle/Cairn, they could have used some improvement. My feeling is that Triangle really needs tube amplification, and excellent setup.

Hopefully, others will jog my memory about notable rooms I came across.

A weird thing was ebay. They really put up a strong front. To the point of having a whole row of computers, where people could jump on, and bid on merchandise. It kind of seemed out of place there. I mean, did people actually spend $25 to attend the Show, only to log on to ebay, and bid on a Pez dispenser? I guess I don't get it.

I would like to say something about Sony. And SACD. A couple of weeks ago, I picked up a demo Sony SCD - 333ES SACD player for a very low price. I didn't expect much. I mean, it is a Sony. It should be thin, harsh, brittle, bright. Sizzle, without the boom. I figured, "What the heck?" At the price I got it for, I could always sell it for at least as much as I paid.

I expected it to be bad. It is not. In fact, it is a wonderful player. I would characterize the sound as warm, full, rich, and forgiving. Bass is powerful, definitely unexpected. Usually, you have to buy a VERY good player to satisfy me in terms of bass, fullness, and richness. This player does. Last week, I picked up some SACDs. Even better. Does it leave me as if I have just gone to the mountain top? No, but the sound of SACD is quite good.

My only criticisms of the player would be in refinement, detail, speed, and delicacy. They could all improve. A lot of very upmarket players sound more refined. This player has kind of an EL34 sound, whereas a lot of expensive players do not give music that kind of sunny, warm glow.

I fully believe that when people like Ric Schultz, Stan Warren, or Dan Wright mod this player, it makes up all of the distance it lacks with the ultimate machines. Parts upgrades are just inline with the direction this player needs to go. Along with getting rid of its awful captured power cord. So, in going in to this whole thing, I figured that I would just mod it. But, I am happy with the sound as is. It is not the best I have come across, but I am happy. So, I am torn in taking the sound to the limit, or keeping the 5 year Sony ES warranty intact. Hmmm, have to think about this one.

I guess my point is that Sony can make a nice player. So, if anyone can find a nice two channel player, I recommend buying it. Had they kept their focus on two channel, maybe a lot of us would have converted at some point. They did not. Instead, they drew their aim on multichannel. Newer and better? It seems as if we are all not fans of multichannel. I bought my player because it is two channel. I have no HT aspirations. It is basically the same player as the SCD - 555ES, but 2 channel vs. 5. I like the two channel player. It offers the interesting digital filters, to tailor the music.

But, one thing that REALLY would turn me off with a multichannel player is how they default to multichannel. Two weeks ago, in listening to the Cary Rocket 88, I used some Marantz SACD player. It would always default to multichannel. And, on the James Taylor SACD, it would be Shawn Colvin singing instead of JT. Until, 2 channel was switched over to. Annoying, and not for the audiophile.

Sony, Philips, get it together. I know I am dreaming, but I think they would do well to go back to stereo. You could make a lot of us happy.

Ozfly, if you are really serious(as I am) about jumping on the Music Hall tuner, I think we should give it a go.

Again, THANKS to everyone!
Thanks to all for offering up their views!

Flyboy9999, please offer your thoughts in the future as well.

What a difference a year makes! Last year, after ripping Talon, I had two guys who just wanted to kill me. This year, Sony and the horns paired with Atma Sphere elicit nothing but agreement. I hope that Atma Sphere is reading this.

Natalie, the tubed Shan Ling CD player imported by Roy Hall was at the Show. My thoughts on the player may raise a few eyebrows, but here goes. I think this is a fine player. However, I also think that the hype about this player is overblown. We all(myself included) fell in love with this component based on its picture. The exposed tubes, the funky styling, the silver color, the transformers. My opinion is that the player looks better in a picture. In person, it seems a bit cheesy. I also question the build quality.

This is a $2000 player. There is a lot of competition at this price point. $2000 is where the really esoteric players begin to show up. I am not sure the Shan Ling makes that cut. At $999, it would be a no brainer. However, where it is priced, I have to pass. Not not recommended, but not recommended. A buy it if you like it.

Personally, I feel that the Music Hall MMF-25 CD player is the one to buy. At $600, I feel it is about as good as almost any CD player under $1500. On par with the Shan Ling, I think its close. They are different, and despite being a tubeophile I prefer the MMF-25. It's more open, silky, quick, and airy.

In fact, I bought one a couple of months ago. It's a very musical sounding player, the sound is light, airy, detailed, refined. A great deal better than anything at its price point: Cambridge D500 SE, NAD 540/541, Jolida 603, Arcam non Ring DAC players, and the Rotels. I put it in the league with the MF A3 and Arcam FMJ 23. I like it much better than the Rega Planet, but I find the Rega slow, dark, and plodding. I can only criticize the Music Hall's horrendour remote(it's even worse than that), and the fact that it doesn't offer the most powerful bass response(I find the vast majority of CD players do not, but this player's bass is quite good).

I forgot to mention Merlin. Personally, I like Merlin. They were in two rooms. The rooms were next to each other. I didn't pay them a whole lot of attention(so I cannot say who they were presenting with - my apologies), but my feelings are that one of the rooms sounded good, and the other did not sound good. On the one hand, I question why they would show their speakers with ancillary components that did not flatter them. On the other, it tells me the speakers produce what is being fed to them. I am not sure if they deserve their $6000+ price. I would probably opt for Roman Audio.

I have also forgot to mention Reference 3A. They had the guts to team up with Antique Sound Labs. An upmarket speaker with a budget amplifier company. I admire that. While the sound was not great, it was OK. I personally feel that Reference 3A should have found a more romantic tube amp. But, for those who like a fast, forward, analytical sound, you would probably be pleased. I prefer more warmth, but we all have different tastes.

Another company I forgot was Thor. Thor sounded great! If you are a tube fan, you would be smitten. Warm, rich, full bodied. To me, what tube fans buy tube amps for. Classic, romantic sound. But, very different from some of the newer tube companies like Rogue, who are more neutral. I would love to own some of the pieces that Thor displayed. But, that will not happen. Number one, the monoblocks were $16K. Number two, the looks are really unconventional. A lot of people would find them ridiculous. Blue lit large acrlyic(?) slabs. Hmmm. I kind of like them, but if I ever got tired of the look, I would be in trouble. And, the eccentric looks would not be kind to resale. You would have to REALLY love these to buy them. The most difficult thing is yes, they do sound THAT good.

I think I may have a bit more perspective on my opening words from the Show. Having thought about them more. It seemed as if there were about the same number of rooms as last year. But, I think the overall vibrancy took a big hit. I did list some reasons, but I would like to add that perhaps last year, 4 companies being prominently featured in a room was the rule, not the exception. Perhaps, the density was higher last year, and that was the difference. I noticed a great deal many more companies in attendance last year.

Maybe, it's me?
Tubegroover, thanks for your input. As always, a fine job.

By, the way, I agree about Merlin speakers. I am a very big fan.
P_mmk, I wish I was able to see last year's demo.

Not directed toward you, but multichannel in general, I do not have a ton of exposure, but I can say that from what I have encountered so far, no thank you.

First of all, the mixes I heard seemed to try to impress. It seems as if they think that I should be in the middle of the music. When I go to hear live music, I am just about never in the middle of the band or orchestra. They are on stage, and I am off stage. I don't think its so great for the engineer to put me in the middle of the action, as it is not real. I do not blame the engineers, they are only making a living. The task must be daunting. Especially, in light of the fact that history has taught us that a 2 channel mix is difficult to do correctly.

I have also so far failed to see a multichannel disc that presented the musicians in the space they normally occupy. Something that stereo at its finest does quite well.

I cannot disparage the sound of the high resolution formats. However, the sonics are the same in two channel or 5.1. SACD is SACD. As 2 channel seems more realistic to me, I have no compelling reason to move away from it. I also have no interest in buying another 3 speakers and a dedicated subwoofer for my main system.

Just one man's opinions...
Well, it seems like a distant memory to us right now, but Stereophile has entered the fray with this year's Stereophile NYC HiFi report.

I am happy to see Wes Phillips contributing more. I think he is an excellent reviewer. In my opinion, Wes is well written, entertaining, and does a good job in conveying the sound of a component.

It seems as if Stereophile and us are mostly in agreement. The sound this year was good almost across the board. There are some differences in our reviews. Mine is a hack job, hammered out from whatever I can remember upon logging in to Audiogon after my return home. It's a wonder I don't throw something in about the Mr. Softee truck parked outside, definitely a highlight. People in NYC or Philadelphia will understand - everyone else will think all manner of crude things. The professionals take the task much more seriously, and take notes, pictures, use a digital voice recorder, have meetings and an itinerary, etc.

Another difference between us is how things can be presented. We will both sing the praises of a room that has great sound. But, I have never read a show report in Stereophile that said anything negative. If it isn't glowing, it will just list the components, ancillaries, and maybe some prices.

As the impressions of me and my fellow Audiogon members have been previously submitted, they can be contrasted to the opinions of Stereophile. It seemed we members are very much in agreement this year. Mostly good sound, some great sound, and a couple of poor sounding rooms.

The Joseph Audio/Manley room fared very well in everyone's opinion. Personally, I think a significant reason was the room and the speakers. Excellent match, and not possible in most show rooms.

The Wilson/VTL room was also universally praised. I have not been a fan of late of the WATT/Puppies, but this is a new revision. Good sound is good sound. I have to give the devil his due, this was better than good sound. The room was big, which Wilsons need. Excellent move. They did a great job in presenting their product.

Some others were Roman Audio and BAT. I did think that Legend Audio was really nice, and wonder if there is anything between Legend and Stereophile. I guess I overreact to the Class C Rating. Audiogoners checked in quite enthusiastically, yet Stereophile paid them little space. On the plus, they did throw a picture in of the speakers, but could it be because they were really showing off the Wilson Benesch, which most of the Stereophile reviewers mentioned?

Speaking of Wilson Benesch, they garnered praise from every direction in the Stereophile coverage. I can't comment, as I really didn't give them much of a listen. But, the amount of praise might be a bit over the top. Any opinions of Wilson Benesch at the Show?

We did disagree on some fronts. Most importantly was the MBL room. Mentioned in superlative terms at several junctures of the Stereophile coverage. I forgot to write about it previously, but I found the sound quite bad. Very unnatural. Bass with boom, probably a result of the bandpass alignment. Midrange that did not integrate well whatsoever, in addition to being harsh. Screechy, irritating highs. The best description I can use for the overall sound of the speaker is unnatural. Yes, the looks are love them or hate them. Personally, I love them. But, I do not like the sound, at all.

Atma Sphere/Classic Audio Reproductions room opinions seemed more or less universal here on Audiogon. Horrendous. Yet heaped with lavish praise by more than one Stereophile reviewer. I really cannot explain this. As I said, I don't expect Stereophile to trash the room, but they don't need to throw out these kind of superlatives either. I cannot say they do not know good sound, because they do. But, outside of their review, most people clearly thought it was dreck. And, I know that Stereophile is not in bed with Atma Sphere, as I cannot remember any recent ads or reviews on either party's side.

The Sony/Manley/Eggleston room was tremendously underwhelming to me. 5.1 channels of put me to sleep sound. I can only wrench at the cost of this system. Figure something like $10K/speaker + sub + maybe $5K/amp. Whew, maybe upwards of $100,000? Many an audiophile could best this for about $2500. But, we all know what is going on here, it's SACD and Sony.

The Blue Circle power amp pumps and preamp purse are ridiculous. Period. I am disappointed that they get so much positive press. I fear Gilbert Yeung may actually read all of the press clippings, and waste his talent on this type of folly.

Next, a brand that I admire, but like Atma Sphere, have not sound good at a show. Triangle. Very unnatural. Congested sound. Classic case of the box getting in the way of the sound. Praised by several at Stereophile. One quote even went so far as to call it "most realistic orchestral sound of speaker I heard at the Show that cost $3000 or less." Huh?!?

I may be in the minority on this one, but I am not so fond of Dynaudio's latest efforts. I find the sound dry and uninvolving. I don't feel much emotion there. Not the kind of speaker I could ever love. Vanilla, white. They really make no statement, which one could argue is the ultimate statement. Then, there is the price... It may be just a function of me tending toward a more romantic sound. As I said, maybe it's me, a lot of people seem to love Dynaudio. If this was a different company, I would probably rip them as being boring and way overpriced, but I have a lot of fond memories for what can come from Dynaudio kits, drivers, and the like.

I do wonder why Musical Fidelity didn't get more ink. Basically, just got what most companies got. MF is beyond being a Stereophile darling. I am a big fan, but it is definitely not the last word in audio. Not even close. Well, maybe it's coming next month.

All in all, I must say the writers this month have done a yeoman's job. Hopefully, next month will bring more of the same