Building high-end 'tables cheap at Home Despot II


“For those who want the moon but can't afford it or those who can afford it but like to have fun and work with their hands, I'm willing to give out a recipe for a true high-end 'table which is easy to do, and fun to make as sky's the limit on design/creativity! The cost of materials, including 'table, is roughly $200 (depending, more or less), and add to that a Rega tonearm. The results are astonishing. I'll even tell/show you how to make chipboard look like marble and fool and impress all your friends. If there's interest I'll get on with this project, if not, I'll just continue making them in my basement. The next one I make will have a Corian top and have a zebra stripe pattern! Fun! Any takers?”

The Lead in “Da Thread” as posted by Johnnantais - 2-01-04

Let the saga continue. Sail on, oh ships of Lenco!
mario_b
Harvey,
The fact that you don't agree with some points that have been generously and with no promoting idea explained don't turn them into b******t.
Always nice to spend some time explaining things to people and get a rotten fish in the face at the end of the play......
Don't have anything else to add.

François from LL.
Hi Harvey, I'll give it a go and report on it, looks like the snowstorms are coming to an end and Spring is about to make an appearance!!

Mosin, we'll keep an eye out for further idler developments. One fellow (hi Stephen) e-mailed me a suggestion: a peripheral ring-clamp for the Garrard a la VPI and as suggested originally on a certain vintage 'table website (can't remember the link now out in the Isolated Country, the one with pages for the SP10 MKII, Thorenses and so on). Anyway, I'll see what can be done once I've made the measurements and consulted with a machinist. Though the Garrard has more torque than the Lenco, it's not a huge difference, having perhaps 20% more torque, so extra mass might amount to only an extra 4 pounds or so to even out the result and make it approach/match and perhaps surpass the Lenco results. The MASSIVE Garrard bearing can certainly take the extra weight, just make sure that the 'table remains level so as not to wear the bushings out on one side. Of course, if a ring-clamp, it can't foul the Garrard controls, measurements must be closely calculated.

On this subject, I cannot emphasize enough just how important Direct Coupling to a high mass is!! I point again to the beating the Sony 2250 served up to the Technics SP-10 MKII in identical plinths (i.e. size and make-up of burch-ply/MDF), despite the Sony's significantly inferior torque. The Sony can be Direct Coupled, the Technics cannot. And the difference between Direct Coupling to a 60-pound plinth and Direct Coupling to a 30-pound plinth is MUCH moroe than a simple doubling of sound quality, the Lenco crossing over into a whole new and unbelievable league.

On this point of Direct Coupling and mass vs inertia, AND quartz-locking, I also cannot believe just how musical the quartz-locked Technics SP-25 is when Direct Coupled to a high-mass CLD plinth. So this makes me wonder: why is the Technics SP-10 MKII so [relatively] unmusical (and inferior in every audiophile sense) to the Sony 2250, and the SP-25, also quartz-locked, ends up being so musical? Given the latest Garrard vs Lenco experiments/experiences, I point to the issue of torque vs inertia. Not only can the SP-10 MKII not be Direct Coupled, it also has MUCH more torque than the Sony 2250. But then the SP-25, which is also quartz-locked, CAN sound musical. So quartz-locking is not inherently a-musical, as I previously thought. What is happening is that the SP-10 MKII's drive system is, like the Garrard's, SO powerful it is imposing its sound on the music, resulting in the quartz-locking being audible (not a pretty picture). Given more inertia (a more massive platter, with mass concentrated on the rim) and Direct Coupling (which absorbs/eliminates noise AND further immobilizes the 'table), the SP-10 MKII should preserve its advantages (all that torque/control and superb build quality) and achieve a high level of [relative] musicality. As to Relative Musicality, a Giant Direct Coupled Lenco has to be heard to be believed, and to understand just how musically-powerful vinyl can be, I believing the Lenco is currently at the top of this heap as well.

Further on this point, the previous owner of the Shindo Garrard is also the owner of a second-from top-of-the-line Maplenoll with massive platter (40-pound graphite/lead platter) and Corian body (his current 'table), and like me years ago when I first heard the humble Garrard SP-25, understood within three minutes just how superior the Lenco was (in my case, I understood, given just how humble the SP-25, that the idler-wheel principle was superior). The Lenco has its powerful 1800-rpm motor and an eight-pound platter. While the Lenco's motor is not as powerful as the Garrard's, not too much can be made of this as the Lenco's motor is still very powerful, spinning at 1800 RPM and weighing in at roughly 4 pounds, and once actually having lifted an 80-pound Lenco off one foot when I accidentally engaged it at 78 rpm from stopped!

Anyway, I'll have to get my hands on an SP-10 once again and see if, after all, something can be done to Direct Couple it, and see about a ring-clamp or substitue heavy platter.

Finally, on the Budget Reference System Front, I cannot believe the results I am currently getting from my current system, which was assembled on a hunch: of course the Ultra Lenco (even larger than usual), followed by the MAS 282 tonearm matched to my Grado Woody (they ALL have the same basic character of super-exciting dynamics, irresistable musicality, retrieval of air and resonances which allows accurate identification of acoustic instruments, wonderful vocals, powerful bass, and so on) and the Sonus/Mayware/Satin M-117HZ, then via the Sony 2000F preamp to the Dynaco ST-120 (!!!) and out via the Klipsch Heresy speakers. We're back in the Kundalini Effect days, and here I now stay, afraid of messing with this latest recipe to achieve the Kundalini Effect. Come to think of it, the last time I had this effect/sound, I also used the MAS 282/Grado combination. The MAS seems to be the secret ingredient in achieving Full Grado Potential, but I'll do further experiments and see if there are alternatives. I also managed it with a Denon DL-103 on various tonearms, particularly the SME V. Anyway, I cannot believe just how wonderful the little Dynaco - available usually for $200 - is via the Klipches (running somewhere arornd $400 usually)!! The magic is stupendous, the SLAM limitless, the delicacy endlessly inviting, and informationally superb, if not state of the art (perhaps the Sonus/Satin will give me this, I'll check it out). A Super Budget System for peanuts!!

On the subject of the Denon DL-103, I was shocked, in a high-resolution system (tubes/Quad ESL63s), at just how vastly superior the Denon DL-103"E" (elliptical tip, new aluminum cantilever) from phonophono in Berlin was to the regular '103, in the bass as well as in terms of detail/clarity, which was in an utterly diferent league. And the Denon magic was completely there to boot. Highly recommended, send your 103s to phonophono for retipping!!

Anyway, have fun all, winter's almost over!!
"Mosin, that's a teaser and no mistake! :) Backstage Pass has a successor?"

Colin,

Indeed it does. This is my most ambitious project ever, and I hope it works as expected. I tried my very best to break new ground on this one, and the big question is whether the ground is firm enough to stand on. I believe it is, but I will know for certain when the needle hits the groove, won't I? In any event, this is a fun hobby because we not only enjoy ourselves, but we learn things. I have learned a lot with this one.

I'll share what I found out with you guys in a month or so, but the turntable is a study in mass, inertia, isolation, friction, materials, speed control, assembly technique and a couple of other areas. Some of it may prove useful to you guys.

Regards,
mosin
WOW! A lot of emotion surrounding these slate plinths!!! I hope no one on this forum is marketing anything!!!! I seem to have really ruffled some feathers over at LL with my less than genial response to the UNSOLICITED advice heaped on me concerning my lo-buck slate experiment... I would consider the whole thing a big mistake if it didn't sound so damn good!!!
I said it at the other forum, and I will say it here, at the end of the day, we're talking about a piece of slate, with a hole in it. If someone wants to go all steak and lobster about it so they can justify charging $1000 at the door, so to speak, good on 'em!!!