Over the years, there were a lot of other posters who contributed to the original Home Despot thread. Doing some more data mining, here are some useful hints and tips from them. This is by no means all inclusive, sorry for any omissions but I didn't save EVERYTHING!
07-23-04: 4yanx
We used Mobil 1 synthetic grease in our L78 to hugely successful effect. We, too, found traces of grease in the plastic sump under the main bearing and replaced it, after a thorough cleaning, by putting a good dab in the hole before replacing the bearing (we also slicked the shaft with synthetic oil and soaked the felt ring above with the oil as Jean suggest). Also disassembled the top and bottom bearings on the motor spindle and re-packed those with the same grease. Spins like a top and super quiet. Think we paid on the order of six clams for a can, which should last the lifetime of me, my son, and his son! :-)
10-24-04: 4yanx
We haven't tried the ceramic bearing yet, maybe if some has an extra, we'll try one. Too cheap to pay shipping for a 30 cent item! Ha!
We've gone a couple of ways on lubrication for the bearing. My son tried something that seems to work as well or better than anything we've tried, though whatever works better, we'll try!
He coated the outside of the spindle using Mobil 1 synthetic 75W-90 oil with a soaked rag. Then he put just a dab of Mobil 1 synthetic grease between the bearing and the spindle, then on the end of the bearing. After carefully sliding the spindle into the sump, he soaked the felt ring around the spindle real good with the oil. Works smooth and quiet.
While on the subject of lubrication, this is a note about the adjustable "pin" that holds firm the top bearing and spindle in the motor housing. If you remove that pin you will notice that on the very end is a cupped piece against which the tip of the shaft rides. This cupped piece can be removed and there is a spring underneath. On the two first Lencos we had, this piece must have been stuck from accumulated grime and we didn't even know it existed. The last one we soaked in spirits and when we were cleaning it "popped off". We further soaked and cleaned and now this "springed cup" allows much better "buffeting" of potential up/down movement of the shaft and allows the pin to be more securely tightened with out impinging upon the rotational movement of the spindle.
11-17-04: Dopogue
My Lenco L78, re-plinthed and breathed upon by Jean hisself, has been sitting in my equipment rack on one of my favorite resonance reducing tweaks (two hockey pucks per corner, sandwiching cork discs). Sounded simply magnificent with its SME IIIS arm and ADC XLM Mk. II cart. But there was a little subterranean stuff coming through the speakers and when I tapped on the shelf below the Lenco I got a "bonk" (a really musical bonk, but a bonk regardless).
After trying various fixes, the hands-down winner proved to be superballs (4 @ $.99 at my local variety store) sitting in Vibrapods. The Vibrapods don't do anything but position the superballs and keep the Lenco from rolling off the shelf. The result: absolute, blissful silence. Even with the subwoofers on. Even when playing mono LPs with a stereo cart.
The only downside was my inability to find 4 superballs of the same hue (aside from day-glo orange and pink, which I thought was a bit much). So we have pale green ones in the front and sort of salmon-ish in the rear. They have smiley faces on them, but I positioned them so they're sitting on their faces.
If you have any resonance/rumble problems at all, you might give this a try. It really works.
11-18-04: Dopogue
I've long been a devotee of the approach 4yanx recommends and am successfully using a Mapleshade combo (cones/maple block/Isoblocks) under a Sony SACD player, after trying a couple of other things. But for some reason my Lenco really likes the superballs. I'm only a day into this setup and my opinion may change, but I'm hearing better bass, more openness and transparency, and other plusses along with the blessed silence. Note that superballs are not soft and are lot closer to golf balls than tennis balls. They may not work for you; they did for me.
Regarding mats, the only one I found I liked better than the stock mat is a heavy sucker that used to sit atop a Technics SP-15. Sounds great and supports the LPs at the same height from outer edge to label, unlike the concave stock mat. Dave
11-18-04: 4yanx
Our experience has been markedly different with respect to plinth support, though different plinth materials on different racks, etc., may very well produce different results. We have found that anything with "give" when used as "feet" gave us less than optimal results (Vibrapods and the like). We found the best results using three brass cones on pucks and found especially good results using old Tip-Toes (the original ones introduced by Steven McCormack way back when). In our experience we realized a much faster sound with a much more taut lower register. As always, however, it pays to try a variety of things to see what works best in individual applications.
We recently ordered and tried one of Herbie's Way Cool Mats and found it superior to the original mat glued to the platter and a Ringmat that we had lying about. At $50, it is not super cheap, but not as expensive as many mats out there, either. Upon grazing this thread, I see where Albert made previous mention of this mat. Worth a try if you want to spring for something different than the stock mat.
A small qualifier. When I mentioned "superior" regarding the original mat/Herbie mat comparison, I might have used too strong a word. We found it better by a very small degree. Specifically, we found the top end to be slightly improved and a perhaps little more "sparkling" in the presentation (which we like). Who knows, though, we adjusted the VTA based on the different mat thickness and this could be the reason for the change (it was that subtle). Unless, this is what you seek or unless your stock mat is trashed, you may or may not want to spend the dough on one of these. They look "way cool", though! :-)
I will hasten to add that we previously tried quite a number of mats and mat combos (Ringmat, Boston Audio mat, cork, felt, glass, etc. etc.) and found the glued-on stock mat to be the best of that bunch.
12-07-04: Willbewill
4yanx - I have used screws (and glue) on one of my Lencos and also a Garrard 401 I had, it enables one to build without clamps plus you can start finishing/sanding etc. earlier. I find no sonic difference between screwed and unscrewed - the screws don't bridge too many layers, usually just two (depending on thickness of layers).
04-27-05: 4yanx
Our latest Lenco, the red 78 in my system link, has two recessed cavities for the placement of armboards. We routed the "through-the-plinth" holes to accommodate a variety of spindle to pivot distances – with an arc scribed based on spindle-to-pivot distances of 208-230mm. We cut and filed six pieces of Corian to the exact same size as the recesses. These pieces were then stacked together and four mounting screw holes were drilled in each at the same time using a drill press. Using one of the pieces as a template, we scribed the location of the mounting holes at the bottom of both recesses. We then drilled pilot holes and countersink rounds and sunk threaded screw anchors in each. As we need an armboard for a specific pivot-to-spindle distance (we’ve now done four), we scribe the location of the arm pillar hole and drill, as required. Each piece of Corian is then backed with damping sheet material, wood veneer, and brass and/or aluminum sheet until it is the appropriate thickness to become level with the top of the plinth, once placed in the recess. We are currently experimenting with different constrained layer damping materials to see which combination gives the best result. Now, the Lenco will allow two arms at any one time, but changing arms is a simple matter of removing four Allen-headed nylon screws, plopping in a different arm and armboard, and re-affixing the screws. Works very well.
04-27-05: 4yanx
As a further aside, we've found that the proper "tension" placed on the nose end screw is such that it the cupped end just seats onto the end of the rotor spindle and allows free travel of the "springy" doo-dad (less than a millimeter). Too little tension causes slop and too much causes restriction. It is a very fine line and impossible to "see". It helps when you get it right to have one person hold the motor casing with one hand, and a small screwdriver set in the slotted end of the screw with the other, while a second person FIRMLY tightens the hold down nut. In our experience, tightening that nut otherwise almost always results in the screw tightening a bit along with it and mucking up the works. Too, if the nut is not secured tightly enough, it backs off - the screw along with it. On out first couple, the doo-dad was so frozen that we didn’t even know it was supposed to “give”. Getting the proper tension was a BEAR until we discovered that.
04-27-05: 4yanx
Jean, I would venture to assume that you've considered this, but don't forget about the little cupped doo-dad at the bottom of the "nose end" screw on the Lenco motor. These are designed to "give" up and down within the shaft of that screw (brilliant). A couple of ours were so "stuck" with crud that they didn't give at all. A good soaking in spirits loosened them. We have done five motors and all but one are silent as a tomb. On all, we disassembled everything and replaced the end bearings with Mobil 1 synthetic grease. Did a couple of early ones with Valvoline red grease and heard no difference but thought the synthetic would last longer.
04-28-05: Rjdcan
Fellow Lenco tweekers here is an observation on the idler wheel noise issue. I've found that its important that the idler wheel runs very close to parallel to the outer circumference of the platter. I know the outer circumference of the platter is curved and the idler wheel is straight but I hope you can visualize what I mean. On one of my Lencos this was not the case until I gently bent the idler wheel arm to insure the parallel tracking. If the wheel is too far out of parallel noise will be heard when the platter turns at 78 rpm, at least that was the case on my table. I've noticed variations also in the angle orientation of the motor spindle relative to the idler wheel on my two Lencos. Hence the need to bend the idler wheel arm in one case. This will help with faster start up also. Its seems more important to have the idler wheel parallel to the platter circumference then having the idler wheel perfectly perpendicular to the motor spindle. In a perfect set up you would think that both the parallel and perpendicular criterion would be met but that has not been my experience on one of my Lencos{the other is pretty close}.
Reinderspeter {love that name}, I wrapped the idler wheel arm after reading your post with a plastic flexible damping tape and it does reduce vibration in the arm. You can verify this by removing the platter and holding the arm while the wheel is spinning on the motor spindle. It's too soon to know if it sounds different but any reduction in vibration has to be a good thing.
05-02-06: Billybuck
I just want to put in a non-affiliated plug for the German guy on eBay who's been selling thrustplates for Lenco and Thorens tables. Mine arrived to the U.S. in less than a week via luftpost. It was an exact match for the old one in my Lenco, highly polished, and perfectly flat (though there seems to be some debate as to whether the dimple seen in many Lenco thrustplates is the result of wear or design).
Last year I purchased a ceramic ball bearing that was an exact size match for the original. Combined with the new thrustplate, this combo took the platter from 11 rotations (after powerdown from 33 1/3) to 97(!) rotations. That's a serious decrease in friction, which I'm assuming is a good thing.
06-08-06: Dopogue
Regarding footers, my giant Lenco (Jean-built) rests on three rounded bolt heads (the long bolts screw into the base of the plinth and provide easy leveling) which sit on a 2x18x22" maple platform which sits on 8 "dead balls" (1 1/2" dia.) which are in turn sitting in rubber lavatory drain gaskets! Same effect as the Ginkho balls/platform but much cheaper and, IMHO, better. I can pound on the shelf under the table without eliciting a murmur.
06-09-06: 4yanx
Mike, the Symposium platforms do work well. I made a few using a modified recipe as can be found by searching the AA site. Others like the Neuance shelf, but we've never tried one. The actual feet beneath, I think, depends on what is below the feet. Thus, some say hard, soft, in between etc. We tried umpteen cones and found that the ones that worked best, and ones that I thought a bit surprising, were the old Mod Squad Tip-Toes. Go figure. Next best were DH ceramic cones.
06-09-06: Dopogue
I just ordered another 8 dead balls (also aka unhappy balls) from Educational Innovations at www.teachersource.com. They're sold in pairs with happy balls, which bounce. The dead balls don't. Guy said everyone wanted to buy just the dead balls and he couldn't figure out what was going on, since they normally sell to educational institutions :-)
They're $6.95 per, and sold as Choositz Decision Balls (don't ask). Best resonance dampers I've ever tried, and the cheapest by a long shot.
08-01-06: Mario_b
Thanks Jean. This whole endeavor has been such a pleasure. A wonderful ball you got rolling here some 2 ½ years ago.
Another nice break with my Lenco today. Boy, this heat has driven me to my basement of discoveries. All signs of any bearing rumble have completely departed my two-armed Lenco L-75 with that new shiny, undimpled thrustplate and polished ball offered on the ‘Bay store from that guy in Germany. I have no affiliation with this gentleman. Must have has some unseen pitting, or an old thrustplate out of true, because this upgrade took out the last vestiges unwanted sonics. Yessir, total silence on non-signal passages with the gain cranked. (Well, you can hear the mains from my Prima Luna tube amp.) A very gratifying re-tune of my first Lenco.
My thanks to TuneInForFun for reminding me in his post that we all have to play doctor, once in awhile, and thump the chest of the patient. I made successful coupling torque adjustments based on this sonic feedback.
Spent a few hours tuning both arms and cartridges. The Rega 300 with its $50 (NOS) AT continues to flood my system with unimagined detail and authoritative bass. Must wonder what this Lenco/Rega will sound like with a real cartridge (like the DL-103) in it.
The Ortofon AS-212 sounds better, but not where I suspect it should be. It gets crowded and perturbed with complex orchestral passages. I’ve tried a Grado Red and a Micro Acoustic 100e aboard. While it’s possible that neither is best suited for the Orto, I continue to think that its complex mounting has allowed its potential to sink off somewhere. Nevertheless, the arm is quite at home with Jazz, Pop, R&B and other closely miked recordings. At some point, I may just remount the Ortofon without its lifter and fabricated metal armboard, but for now, it's on to other builds: Lenco L-61/Sonus IV/Shure V-15 vxmr in marble (top layer): Metzner Starlight/Sumiko IV in Standard Plinth: Presto Pirouette in Sphinx sloping plinth base with island arm. As for Rondine the Mambo Queen from Rek-O-Kut, I’m going to wait to see what Jean has up his sleeve on his Rondine build.
Cheers! Mario
08-05-06: Mgreene
Thanx YANX. I finally got around to re-tweaking my first giant Lenco. THe things I wanted to try were:
1. Replace the motor cap - used an ERO 1845, no difference. Still getting a pop on shutoff.
2. take some tension off the arm mounting nut - couldnt tell any difference.
3. Install the german ebay metal thrustplate - as Mario said, it seemed to offer an even quieter background. Haven’t had time to do a nother spin-down test.
4. Install the acorn nut feet a la Jean - seemed to get a little more bass and a slightly better delineated sound stage. At this point no negatives - still cant understand why the brass cones were so bad except that they were not screwed in.
5. Try removing the direct coupling screws - this proved to be very interesting. On the tip from Peter, I tapped the bottom plate and discovered that where the screws were the tap tone was very consistent an only a little different elsewhere on the plate.
So, both before all of the above and afterwards, I listened with and without the screws. See my system for two new pics showing the rubber used to fill the gap for direct coupling and the position of the screws (note the rubber washers).
I'll cut to the chase. Neither was terrible. With the screws, the stage was a row or two closer and tighter imaging - more of a hard edge to the images. Without the screws the first thing I noticed was a more open treble and better PRAT and slightly better bass. THe images had a more diffuse edge as in life. All in all with the bottom plate sitting on rubber but not screwed to the plinth sounded more like real music.
I am hoping that #2's bottom plate will meet the plywood so I hear direct coupling with screws.
Mike
08-06-06: 4yanx
IMHO, the "feet" material which is best suited to particular project table depends on the materials used in construction, the nature of the armboard, and the materials/rigidity/location of the stand on which it sits. As is frustratingly often the case, trial and error is required to make the ultimate solution. In our room, and using the materials we use, there is no other footer better than the old Mod Squad Tip-Toes. OTOH, we found that solid cocobolo puck sunder those same cones smoothed out things to much better effect on a friends DIY solid metal wall mount stand. I’ve also seen applications where those rubber-cork-rubber sandwiches placed directly between the plinth and a maple butcherboard platform worked best. Bottom line is that one finds what works best for them – and the horse will be very much alive ! :-)
07-23-04: 4yanx
We used Mobil 1 synthetic grease in our L78 to hugely successful effect. We, too, found traces of grease in the plastic sump under the main bearing and replaced it, after a thorough cleaning, by putting a good dab in the hole before replacing the bearing (we also slicked the shaft with synthetic oil and soaked the felt ring above with the oil as Jean suggest). Also disassembled the top and bottom bearings on the motor spindle and re-packed those with the same grease. Spins like a top and super quiet. Think we paid on the order of six clams for a can, which should last the lifetime of me, my son, and his son! :-)
10-24-04: 4yanx
We haven't tried the ceramic bearing yet, maybe if some has an extra, we'll try one. Too cheap to pay shipping for a 30 cent item! Ha!
We've gone a couple of ways on lubrication for the bearing. My son tried something that seems to work as well or better than anything we've tried, though whatever works better, we'll try!
He coated the outside of the spindle using Mobil 1 synthetic 75W-90 oil with a soaked rag. Then he put just a dab of Mobil 1 synthetic grease between the bearing and the spindle, then on the end of the bearing. After carefully sliding the spindle into the sump, he soaked the felt ring around the spindle real good with the oil. Works smooth and quiet.
While on the subject of lubrication, this is a note about the adjustable "pin" that holds firm the top bearing and spindle in the motor housing. If you remove that pin you will notice that on the very end is a cupped piece against which the tip of the shaft rides. This cupped piece can be removed and there is a spring underneath. On the two first Lencos we had, this piece must have been stuck from accumulated grime and we didn't even know it existed. The last one we soaked in spirits and when we were cleaning it "popped off". We further soaked and cleaned and now this "springed cup" allows much better "buffeting" of potential up/down movement of the shaft and allows the pin to be more securely tightened with out impinging upon the rotational movement of the spindle.
11-17-04: Dopogue
My Lenco L78, re-plinthed and breathed upon by Jean hisself, has been sitting in my equipment rack on one of my favorite resonance reducing tweaks (two hockey pucks per corner, sandwiching cork discs). Sounded simply magnificent with its SME IIIS arm and ADC XLM Mk. II cart. But there was a little subterranean stuff coming through the speakers and when I tapped on the shelf below the Lenco I got a "bonk" (a really musical bonk, but a bonk regardless).
After trying various fixes, the hands-down winner proved to be superballs (4 @ $.99 at my local variety store) sitting in Vibrapods. The Vibrapods don't do anything but position the superballs and keep the Lenco from rolling off the shelf. The result: absolute, blissful silence. Even with the subwoofers on. Even when playing mono LPs with a stereo cart.
The only downside was my inability to find 4 superballs of the same hue (aside from day-glo orange and pink, which I thought was a bit much). So we have pale green ones in the front and sort of salmon-ish in the rear. They have smiley faces on them, but I positioned them so they're sitting on their faces.
If you have any resonance/rumble problems at all, you might give this a try. It really works.
11-18-04: Dopogue
I've long been a devotee of the approach 4yanx recommends and am successfully using a Mapleshade combo (cones/maple block/Isoblocks) under a Sony SACD player, after trying a couple of other things. But for some reason my Lenco really likes the superballs. I'm only a day into this setup and my opinion may change, but I'm hearing better bass, more openness and transparency, and other plusses along with the blessed silence. Note that superballs are not soft and are lot closer to golf balls than tennis balls. They may not work for you; they did for me.
Regarding mats, the only one I found I liked better than the stock mat is a heavy sucker that used to sit atop a Technics SP-15. Sounds great and supports the LPs at the same height from outer edge to label, unlike the concave stock mat. Dave
11-18-04: 4yanx
Our experience has been markedly different with respect to plinth support, though different plinth materials on different racks, etc., may very well produce different results. We have found that anything with "give" when used as "feet" gave us less than optimal results (Vibrapods and the like). We found the best results using three brass cones on pucks and found especially good results using old Tip-Toes (the original ones introduced by Steven McCormack way back when). In our experience we realized a much faster sound with a much more taut lower register. As always, however, it pays to try a variety of things to see what works best in individual applications.
We recently ordered and tried one of Herbie's Way Cool Mats and found it superior to the original mat glued to the platter and a Ringmat that we had lying about. At $50, it is not super cheap, but not as expensive as many mats out there, either. Upon grazing this thread, I see where Albert made previous mention of this mat. Worth a try if you want to spring for something different than the stock mat.
A small qualifier. When I mentioned "superior" regarding the original mat/Herbie mat comparison, I might have used too strong a word. We found it better by a very small degree. Specifically, we found the top end to be slightly improved and a perhaps little more "sparkling" in the presentation (which we like). Who knows, though, we adjusted the VTA based on the different mat thickness and this could be the reason for the change (it was that subtle). Unless, this is what you seek or unless your stock mat is trashed, you may or may not want to spend the dough on one of these. They look "way cool", though! :-)
I will hasten to add that we previously tried quite a number of mats and mat combos (Ringmat, Boston Audio mat, cork, felt, glass, etc. etc.) and found the glued-on stock mat to be the best of that bunch.
12-07-04: Willbewill
4yanx - I have used screws (and glue) on one of my Lencos and also a Garrard 401 I had, it enables one to build without clamps plus you can start finishing/sanding etc. earlier. I find no sonic difference between screwed and unscrewed - the screws don't bridge too many layers, usually just two (depending on thickness of layers).
04-27-05: 4yanx
Our latest Lenco, the red 78 in my system link, has two recessed cavities for the placement of armboards. We routed the "through-the-plinth" holes to accommodate a variety of spindle to pivot distances – with an arc scribed based on spindle-to-pivot distances of 208-230mm. We cut and filed six pieces of Corian to the exact same size as the recesses. These pieces were then stacked together and four mounting screw holes were drilled in each at the same time using a drill press. Using one of the pieces as a template, we scribed the location of the mounting holes at the bottom of both recesses. We then drilled pilot holes and countersink rounds and sunk threaded screw anchors in each. As we need an armboard for a specific pivot-to-spindle distance (we’ve now done four), we scribe the location of the arm pillar hole and drill, as required. Each piece of Corian is then backed with damping sheet material, wood veneer, and brass and/or aluminum sheet until it is the appropriate thickness to become level with the top of the plinth, once placed in the recess. We are currently experimenting with different constrained layer damping materials to see which combination gives the best result. Now, the Lenco will allow two arms at any one time, but changing arms is a simple matter of removing four Allen-headed nylon screws, plopping in a different arm and armboard, and re-affixing the screws. Works very well.
04-27-05: 4yanx
As a further aside, we've found that the proper "tension" placed on the nose end screw is such that it the cupped end just seats onto the end of the rotor spindle and allows free travel of the "springy" doo-dad (less than a millimeter). Too little tension causes slop and too much causes restriction. It is a very fine line and impossible to "see". It helps when you get it right to have one person hold the motor casing with one hand, and a small screwdriver set in the slotted end of the screw with the other, while a second person FIRMLY tightens the hold down nut. In our experience, tightening that nut otherwise almost always results in the screw tightening a bit along with it and mucking up the works. Too, if the nut is not secured tightly enough, it backs off - the screw along with it. On out first couple, the doo-dad was so frozen that we didn’t even know it was supposed to “give”. Getting the proper tension was a BEAR until we discovered that.
04-27-05: 4yanx
Jean, I would venture to assume that you've considered this, but don't forget about the little cupped doo-dad at the bottom of the "nose end" screw on the Lenco motor. These are designed to "give" up and down within the shaft of that screw (brilliant). A couple of ours were so "stuck" with crud that they didn't give at all. A good soaking in spirits loosened them. We have done five motors and all but one are silent as a tomb. On all, we disassembled everything and replaced the end bearings with Mobil 1 synthetic grease. Did a couple of early ones with Valvoline red grease and heard no difference but thought the synthetic would last longer.
04-28-05: Rjdcan
Fellow Lenco tweekers here is an observation on the idler wheel noise issue. I've found that its important that the idler wheel runs very close to parallel to the outer circumference of the platter. I know the outer circumference of the platter is curved and the idler wheel is straight but I hope you can visualize what I mean. On one of my Lencos this was not the case until I gently bent the idler wheel arm to insure the parallel tracking. If the wheel is too far out of parallel noise will be heard when the platter turns at 78 rpm, at least that was the case on my table. I've noticed variations also in the angle orientation of the motor spindle relative to the idler wheel on my two Lencos. Hence the need to bend the idler wheel arm in one case. This will help with faster start up also. Its seems more important to have the idler wheel parallel to the platter circumference then having the idler wheel perfectly perpendicular to the motor spindle. In a perfect set up you would think that both the parallel and perpendicular criterion would be met but that has not been my experience on one of my Lencos{the other is pretty close}.
Reinderspeter {love that name}, I wrapped the idler wheel arm after reading your post with a plastic flexible damping tape and it does reduce vibration in the arm. You can verify this by removing the platter and holding the arm while the wheel is spinning on the motor spindle. It's too soon to know if it sounds different but any reduction in vibration has to be a good thing.
05-02-06: Billybuck
I just want to put in a non-affiliated plug for the German guy on eBay who's been selling thrustplates for Lenco and Thorens tables. Mine arrived to the U.S. in less than a week via luftpost. It was an exact match for the old one in my Lenco, highly polished, and perfectly flat (though there seems to be some debate as to whether the dimple seen in many Lenco thrustplates is the result of wear or design).
Last year I purchased a ceramic ball bearing that was an exact size match for the original. Combined with the new thrustplate, this combo took the platter from 11 rotations (after powerdown from 33 1/3) to 97(!) rotations. That's a serious decrease in friction, which I'm assuming is a good thing.
06-08-06: Dopogue
Regarding footers, my giant Lenco (Jean-built) rests on three rounded bolt heads (the long bolts screw into the base of the plinth and provide easy leveling) which sit on a 2x18x22" maple platform which sits on 8 "dead balls" (1 1/2" dia.) which are in turn sitting in rubber lavatory drain gaskets! Same effect as the Ginkho balls/platform but much cheaper and, IMHO, better. I can pound on the shelf under the table without eliciting a murmur.
06-09-06: 4yanx
Mike, the Symposium platforms do work well. I made a few using a modified recipe as can be found by searching the AA site. Others like the Neuance shelf, but we've never tried one. The actual feet beneath, I think, depends on what is below the feet. Thus, some say hard, soft, in between etc. We tried umpteen cones and found that the ones that worked best, and ones that I thought a bit surprising, were the old Mod Squad Tip-Toes. Go figure. Next best were DH ceramic cones.
06-09-06: Dopogue
I just ordered another 8 dead balls (also aka unhappy balls) from Educational Innovations at www.teachersource.com. They're sold in pairs with happy balls, which bounce. The dead balls don't. Guy said everyone wanted to buy just the dead balls and he couldn't figure out what was going on, since they normally sell to educational institutions :-)
They're $6.95 per, and sold as Choositz Decision Balls (don't ask). Best resonance dampers I've ever tried, and the cheapest by a long shot.
08-01-06: Mario_b
Thanks Jean. This whole endeavor has been such a pleasure. A wonderful ball you got rolling here some 2 ½ years ago.
Another nice break with my Lenco today. Boy, this heat has driven me to my basement of discoveries. All signs of any bearing rumble have completely departed my two-armed Lenco L-75 with that new shiny, undimpled thrustplate and polished ball offered on the ‘Bay store from that guy in Germany. I have no affiliation with this gentleman. Must have has some unseen pitting, or an old thrustplate out of true, because this upgrade took out the last vestiges unwanted sonics. Yessir, total silence on non-signal passages with the gain cranked. (Well, you can hear the mains from my Prima Luna tube amp.) A very gratifying re-tune of my first Lenco.
My thanks to TuneInForFun for reminding me in his post that we all have to play doctor, once in awhile, and thump the chest of the patient. I made successful coupling torque adjustments based on this sonic feedback.
Spent a few hours tuning both arms and cartridges. The Rega 300 with its $50 (NOS) AT continues to flood my system with unimagined detail and authoritative bass. Must wonder what this Lenco/Rega will sound like with a real cartridge (like the DL-103) in it.
The Ortofon AS-212 sounds better, but not where I suspect it should be. It gets crowded and perturbed with complex orchestral passages. I’ve tried a Grado Red and a Micro Acoustic 100e aboard. While it’s possible that neither is best suited for the Orto, I continue to think that its complex mounting has allowed its potential to sink off somewhere. Nevertheless, the arm is quite at home with Jazz, Pop, R&B and other closely miked recordings. At some point, I may just remount the Ortofon without its lifter and fabricated metal armboard, but for now, it's on to other builds: Lenco L-61/Sonus IV/Shure V-15 vxmr in marble (top layer): Metzner Starlight/Sumiko IV in Standard Plinth: Presto Pirouette in Sphinx sloping plinth base with island arm. As for Rondine the Mambo Queen from Rek-O-Kut, I’m going to wait to see what Jean has up his sleeve on his Rondine build.
Cheers! Mario
08-05-06: Mgreene
Thanx YANX. I finally got around to re-tweaking my first giant Lenco. THe things I wanted to try were:
1. Replace the motor cap - used an ERO 1845, no difference. Still getting a pop on shutoff.
2. take some tension off the arm mounting nut - couldnt tell any difference.
3. Install the german ebay metal thrustplate - as Mario said, it seemed to offer an even quieter background. Haven’t had time to do a nother spin-down test.
4. Install the acorn nut feet a la Jean - seemed to get a little more bass and a slightly better delineated sound stage. At this point no negatives - still cant understand why the brass cones were so bad except that they were not screwed in.
5. Try removing the direct coupling screws - this proved to be very interesting. On the tip from Peter, I tapped the bottom plate and discovered that where the screws were the tap tone was very consistent an only a little different elsewhere on the plate.
So, both before all of the above and afterwards, I listened with and without the screws. See my system for two new pics showing the rubber used to fill the gap for direct coupling and the position of the screws (note the rubber washers).
I'll cut to the chase. Neither was terrible. With the screws, the stage was a row or two closer and tighter imaging - more of a hard edge to the images. Without the screws the first thing I noticed was a more open treble and better PRAT and slightly better bass. THe images had a more diffuse edge as in life. All in all with the bottom plate sitting on rubber but not screwed to the plinth sounded more like real music.
I am hoping that #2's bottom plate will meet the plywood so I hear direct coupling with screws.
Mike
08-06-06: 4yanx
IMHO, the "feet" material which is best suited to particular project table depends on the materials used in construction, the nature of the armboard, and the materials/rigidity/location of the stand on which it sits. As is frustratingly often the case, trial and error is required to make the ultimate solution. In our room, and using the materials we use, there is no other footer better than the old Mod Squad Tip-Toes. OTOH, we found that solid cocobolo puck sunder those same cones smoothed out things to much better effect on a friends DIY solid metal wall mount stand. I’ve also seen applications where those rubber-cork-rubber sandwiches placed directly between the plinth and a maple butcherboard platform worked best. Bottom line is that one finds what works best for them – and the horse will be very much alive ! :-)