I see the issue with ABX blind testing


I’ve followed many of the cable discussions over the years with interest. I’ve never tested cables & compared the sound other than when I bought an LFD amp & the vendor said that it was best paired with the LFD power cord. That was $450 US and he offered to ship it to me to try & if I didn’t notice a difference I could send it back. I got it, tried it & sent it back. To me there was no difference at all.

Fast forward to today & I have a new system & the issue of cables arises again. I have Mogami cables made by Take Five Audio in Canada. The speaker wire are Mogami 3104, XLRs are Mogami 2549 & the power cords are Powerline 10 with Furutech connectors. All cables are quite well made and I’ve been using them for about 5 years. The vendor that sold me the new equipment insisted that I needed "better" cables and sent along some Transparent Super speaker & XLR cables to try. If I like them I can pay for them.

In every discussion about cables the question is always asked, why don’t you do an ABX blind test? So I was figuring out how I’d do that. I know the reason few do it. It’s not easy to accomplish. I have no problem having a friend come over & swap cables without telling me what he’s done, whether he swapped any at all etc. But from what I can see the benefit, if there is one, will be most noticeable system wide. In other words, just switching one power cable the way I did before won’t be sufficient for you to tell a difference... again, assuming there is one. So I need my friend to swap power cables for my amp/preamp & streamer, XLR cables from my streamer to my preamp, preamp to amp & speakers cables. That takes a good 5-10 minutes. There is no way my brain is retaining what I previously heard and then comparing it to what I currently hear.

The alternative is to connect all of the new cables, listen for a week or so & then switch back & see if you feel you’re missing anything. But then your brain takes over & your biases will have as much impact as any potential change in sound quality.

So I’m stumped as to how to proceed.

A photo of my new setup. McIntosh MC462, C2700, Pure Fidelity Harmony TT, Lumin T3 & Sonus Faber Amati G5 & Gravis V speakers.

dwcda

Professional musicians can easily identify differences between the sound of different violins but they’re not trained to identify differences between cables. It takes commitment, years of swapping components, cables and working on room acoustics to dial your system in and train your ears in the process to get all pieces of the puzzle to the level where differences between components and cables are easily discernible. Exposure to live music is priceless to build a reference (not talking about a Metallica concert here which is nearly impossible to replicate at home). Once it all comes together, add the recording quality to this equation and when all stars align you can, if you have the ears to do so, not only identify differences between cables, but also identify the differences between a Strad and a Guarneri, a Yamaha and a Steinway or a Kawai. It’s not impossible in a context of a properly set up system and room with trained and capable hearing listening to a high quality recording.
We can all argue this until we’re blue in the face. Facts are facts. Measurements is just a part of it all. It isn’t everything.

It pass my mind why people argue with no understanding of psychoacoustics where any kind of parameters and measurement ( musical, acoustical physiological, mechanical or electrical measures are subordinated to subjective guinea pigs voluntary listeners perceptive evaluation from all background) are correlated to subjective impressions collected by sampling them on a given population and studied statistically .

Cables; be it for objective measurement crowd with their obsession with mere electrical measurements or be it for the other crowd for which their own ears only tell the tale and only their ears; cables, must be investigated in psychoacoustics studies. Period.

Not on audio thread. If a cable matter for you fine, If the cable do not do the job,   dont go objecting with Maxwell or contradicting  by using it corrected by quantum theory. It is useless.Preposterous.Ridicule. I dont like cables thread. 😁😊😋

@audphile1 
How do you explain cables being //Not difficult to hear// but impossible to see on a frequency or amplitude graph? Are the cables making a difference in sound apart from frequency and amplitude? I honestly want to know what you think. 

 

Measuring something is both an art and a science.  It is called Metrology.  The methodology to measure something is just as important as the measurement equipment used.  Let‘s consider an interconnect cable.  What could we measure?  Well, we can measure length, weight, diameter.  We can measure tensile strength, flex strength, minimum bend radius, hardness of the wire, wire gage, etc.  The list can grow quite long.  Then we can measure it‘s electrical properties.  A cable has resistance, capacitance and inductance.  But those three properties are not fixed.  They can vary with temperature, frequency of the signal passing through and amplitude.  Let‘s say we measure this interconnect cable with an LCR meter.  We get a value for resistance, capacitance and inductance.  That measurement doesn‘t say anything about a signal passing through at 5000 Hz or 10,000 Hz or 20,000 Hz.  I remember cable makers back in the 1980s touting their audio cables could pass signals in the MHz range.  I wondered what use was that?  Well, now I understand that harmonics in cables up into the ultrasonic range is important to the sounds within our range of hearing.  So the properties of that cable will cause the phase angle to change between the input and output but the amount of change is dependent upon the frequency.  I‘ve never seen anyone map that in a cable measurement.  How about a waterfall plot of an interconnect showing impedance, and phase angle across a frequency range from 0-100,000 Hz? One cable vs another will have phase angle changes that are unique.  Non-linearities.  Non-linearities are the biggest headache in engineering.  Hard to predict the outcome without some extensive computer modeling.  And in the end, what measurements we see on a graph could be smearing over what is so easily heard.

Another example:  How mechanical vibrations can affect the sound of a cable.  How can that be?  I don‘t know, but I have heard the difference between an isolated cable vs one that is exposed to mechanical vibrations.  My guess is that movements of the wires inside the cable alter the capacitance and inductance- an additional complication.  These minute mechanical changes create colorations in the sound, smearing of images.  I bet cable manufacturers know or understand much of this but they aren‘t about to give away trade secrets to how or what they measure as well as how they manufacture.

Another way to measure a cable that came to mind is a Bode plot.  The X-axis is frequency, say 0-100,000 Hz and then two lines on the Y-axis.  The first line would be amplitude ratio, input over output and the second line on the Y-axis would be phase angle.  Now I know the changes in those two lines for a cable will be very small- nothing like an amplifier circuit; but variation will be there.  Again, easier to hear than to measure.