Soundstage easiest to achieve with horn speakers...in my experience.
From whence does Sound Stage come?
What drew me back to this hobby after dabbling in High School, was listening to a friend’s system, in a room over his garage filled with over-stuffed furniture, at least seven different amplifiers and twice that many speakers. What was new to me was a room literally filled with sound, and I couldn’t tell where it was coming from. I climbed over the furniture and put my ear to speaker after speaker, but I was never able to locate the source of the sound. It was a wonderful, awe-filled, experience.
Fast forward to the present. I have now built several systems, in different rooms, with different components. Sometimes I get a ‘sound stage’ where the speakers disappear, sometimes I don’t. I have been told that getting the speakers to disappear is all a matter of placement in the room: “Give me your room dimensions; and I’ll tell you where to place your speakers.” But I can tell you, some speakers disappear, and some speakers announce their presence with every note. I have had odd staging where a particular sound appeared un-naturally at the wrong place (like a cymbal hit at my feet); only to have the issue resolved to a more coherent shape with an upgrade to the analog output stage of the DAC. I have had a decent sound stage cast by a particular pair of speakers, only to have it destroyed with the use of a sub-par power amplifier. I’ve heard reviewers and designers talk about how their component offers sound stage depth as well as width (depth seems to be more difficult to achieve). And then there is the old canard about how tube amps present a ‘halo graphic’ sound stage. I can detail the equipment configurations that have I have put together that succeeded or failed at the goal of presenting a great sound stage, but I’m trying to ask a general question, I am not a bot, and I’m not seeking help with a particular configuration, just help on developing a strategy to tackle the issue of sound stage and imaging of instruments within it.
I will say that the best sounding solutions I have developed thus far both involved a Schiit Yggdrasil (now at ‘Less-is-More) into a SS McIntosh C100 (circa 1992) and either a tube Rogue ‘Stereo 100’ or a SS McIntosh MC252 power amp powering either the Warfedale W70E or B&W 801 Matrix speakers. If I substitute different amps, speakers, preamp, or DAC, the pyramid crumbles and I start hearing two speakers again; I lose my ‘sound stage,’ which is really concerning (to me). Anyone with more than two years into this hobby is qualified to address this question. I need some help, I can’t just keep throwing equipment (and money) at this issue. Any ideas?
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- 90 posts total
Like the poster about 4 channels giving best soundstage, this is cheating too. So Im using my Carver c4000 from 1980. It has Bob Carvers "magical" function of Sonic Holography. Ive heard sounds from far left and right of speakers that are scarey, phantom like. Yes, its mainly about the recording itself for the most part. Allen Parson's I robot presents a wall of sound for example. Ive had low fi Kilpish towers and now run Magnepan 1.7i s. In someways the Klipish towers did better for soundstage, but horns were fatigueing. 1.7is sound much better in toneality and detail, but I kind of think their large physical presences make them hard to "disappear". |
@bolong I hadn’t considered horn speakers for their ability to cast a sound stage, I do believe they would project the sound forward rather than make it appear the sound was coming from behind the speaker. I have heard several testimonies to the horned speaker being able to absolutely transport the listener. @bikefi10 You are two steps ahead of me. As above, I’ve never heard horns in my system (step one); neither have I heard electrostatics or planar speakers (step two). I’m more interested in the latter, and seriously considering purchasing a complete system from Sound by Sanders but I’ll either need to save a lot of pennies, close out my 401K (no, wait, I’ve already done that) . . . guess I’ll have to start buying lottery tickets. :-) |
I don't know about Sound by Sanders, but if you don't mind used, I picked up my Magnepan 1.7i s for $1,300. They were only 1 year old and just broken in. Planars have a long breakin period. As per my previous post, seems like horns and planars are two different worlds. Direct projection vs. "omni" directional, but the 1.7i s definately sound better for jazz, female vocal, inde type music. Horns/ cones seem to do better for rock in my experience. I also use a Rythmik direct servo sub cuting in at 80hz to give a bit more umph in the low end. |
@bikefi10 I certainly don’t mind used. Out of the over thirty pieces of equipment and sets of speakers I’ve purchased in the last three years, only nine have been new, and three of those were gifts. @rodman99999 and others, this whole question (whence soundstage?) arose for me experiencing the different speaker technology of the McIntosh imposing XRT20 speakers in a new space (upstairs) and comparing it with the B&W 891 Matrix speakers in my listening room downstairs, where I thought I knew why the sound was always centered pretty much just to the left of my right speaker emanating from the wall’s junction with the ceiling. While switching some of the bi-amplifiers downstairs off and on I discovered that I had lost the left side of my tube amp. The tube amp was driving the upper frequencies of the B&W 801s. Turned out one of the KT120s had lost its vacuum and taken out the fuse of its partner. Now that everything is back together, the soundstage center is back in the center of the room, and the instruments are right at head level if I sit up straight (I tend to slouch). Sounds GREAT! |
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