From whence does Sound Stage come?


What drew me back to this hobby after dabbling in High School, was listening to a friend’s system, in a room over his garage filled with over-stuffed furniture, at least seven different amplifiers and twice that many speakers. What was new to me was a room literally filled with sound, and I couldn’t tell where it was coming from. I climbed over the furniture and put my ear to speaker after speaker, but I was never able to locate the source of the sound. It was a wonderful, awe-filled, experience.

Fast forward to the present. I have now built several systems, in different rooms, with different components. Sometimes I get a ‘sound stage’ where the speakers disappear, sometimes I don’t. I have been told that getting the speakers to disappear is all a matter of placement in the room: “Give me your room dimensions; and I’ll tell you where to place your speakers.” But I can tell you, some speakers disappear, and some speakers announce their presence with every note. I have had odd staging where a particular sound appeared un-naturally at the wrong place (like a cymbal hit at my feet); only to have the issue resolved to a more coherent shape with an upgrade to the analog output stage of the DAC. I have had a decent sound stage cast by a particular pair of speakers, only to have it destroyed with the use of a sub-par power amplifier. I’ve heard reviewers and designers talk about how their component offers sound stage depth as well as width (depth seems to be more difficult to achieve). And then there is the old canard about how tube amps present a ‘halo graphic’ sound stage. I can detail the equipment configurations that have I have put together that succeeded or failed at the goal of presenting a great sound stage, but I’m trying to ask a general question, I am not a bot, and I’m not seeking help with a particular configuration, just help on developing a strategy to tackle the issue of sound stage and imaging of instruments within it. 
I will say that the best sounding solutions I have developed thus far both involved a Schiit Yggdrasil (now at ‘Less-is-More) into a SS McIntosh C100 (circa 1992) and either a tube Rogue ‘Stereo 100’ or a SS McIntosh MC252 power amp powering either the Warfedale W70E or B&W 801 Matrix speakers. If I substitute different amps, speakers, preamp, or DAC, the pyramid crumbles and I start hearing two speakers again; I lose my ‘sound stage,’ which is really concerning (to me). Anyone with more than two years into this hobby is qualified to address this question. I need some help, I can’t just keep throwing equipment (and money) at this issue. Any ideas?

128x128oldrooney

@oldrooney -

       Be certain all the drivers in your left channel's speaker system are functional.

       If possible: undo any changes made in the room, since the last, full (L/R) soundstage you recall.

       Try to get your listening area as symmetric as possible, as regards reflections.

        In my case (small/crappy listening room, after divorce):  I'm able to place the system/speakers ALMOST equidistant from the side walls, bipolar drivers (mains) 2' from the front wall, with diffusers behind, where their greatest radiation concentration will be focused.   

        Behind listening position: 2" Sonex, from 3' off the floor, to the ceiling (completely eliminated the room's Slap Echo) and LENRDs, same height, in the corners.

        My listening position is 1/3 into the room, away from the back wall and what would have to be considered Near Field (at the apex of an equilateral, 8' sided, triangle).

         Having used planars (Acoustats and Magnepans) for so may decades; I'm used to not having to deal with the wide dispersion, of the typical box speaker and find the output of my Emerald Physics (still very narrowly beamy), easy to predict, with any reflected speaker back waves, directed behind my head/ears, toward the Sonex.

          My seat has a nothing but soft material, round corners and a high back, so: 

                            I hear virtually nothing from the back of the room.

          Though Sabine effects are unavoidable: they're minimized and I use DSP (via TacT RCS 2.2X), to mitigate what's left, beside time-aligning my woofer systems, which now are forced to reside (the small, crappy room, again) behind the mains.

            Played back at any levels approaching those originally recorded; the listening room disappears.

            Closing my eyes takes me to the original performance and venue, with a good recording.

             For the naysayers: YES, I DO have a number of my own recordings, not to mention: a number, made in (otherwise) very familiar venues.

                                     Sorry for the loquaciousness!      

                                               Happy listening!   

 

@edisoncarter  I will grant you two points: (1) You are correct insofar as locus of the stereographic image, but (and it’s a big but), the head needs the proper input in order to create the image. As the research discovered that went into the LEDR (Listening Environment Diagnostic Recording), even the shape of the earlobes affect how individuals hear the same sound. By your logic, we could get a stereographic sound image from a single speaker could create a sound stage on its own if we properly listen to it. Monaural recordings can certainly fill a room, and the speaker may even disappear, but the image is definitely not stereographic. (2) You are also correct that I need to learn how to listen better. I am not a professional sound engineer in any capacity, nor do I aspire to become one; but I do expect, perhaps too optimistically, to hear instruments imaged individually in a sound stage. I don’t think such a soundscape is entirely in my head, but, as you say, I probably won’t realize it without some training of my listening skills. Thanks for the response. 

@rodman99999 I had to generate three searches on Google to begin to understand your latest post. I appreciate your references to affordable acoustic panels and bass traps. I have more flexibility to create and modify the space downstairs. My first step may be to hook the Warfedales again for a reference check. The room is square, has five doors, and is (now) only half full of disassembled furniture, cardboard boxes, two bookcases, etc. etc. Again, I’m less than 6’ away from the main drivers which are 32” from the front wall behind them. I’m just going to have to play with their placement for a while.

Upstairs, window on the left side, 6’ opening into the dining room on the right, stairwell behind left half of room; hallway back to the bedrooms along right wall, with a 36” wide closet wall 36” just to the right behind the listening position. I may need professional help, with the acoustics, that is.

In truth, I have avoided dealing with acoustics until I acquired enough quality gear that the sound reproduction was adequate. It is now time to sort it out, as it has become obvious to me that I cannot progress in this hobby until I address the issue.

Again, I deeply appreciate your contributions, you are directly addressing the issues I’m having. 

@oldrooney -

       There are less expensive options available than genuine Sonex, or Auralex (LENRDs), on eBay*.

        I can only assume: they'd be as efficacious, as the real thing.

                              Can't REALLY see why not!

        The 2" depth Sonex did a good job at addressing the frequencies needed, in my current room.      Some experimenting may be required, with your room and variables, but: I wouldn't go any thinner.

         If the basement room is actually a square (all sides even, or can be evenly divided into one another): it may be worse than what you have now.

         If your system used to reproduce an actual/accurate soundstage and proper imaging; you should be able to get it back, if not better, now that you've got the references/tests.