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Weak Link in Vinyl Playback

Hi Everyone,

I’m looking for some input on a weak link in my system, mostly in regards to my vinyl playback chain in a 12’x11’ room.

I currently have a Technics SL-1700 MK1 with an AT-VM95ML cartridge. The turntable is connected to an iFi Zen Phono. The phono is connected to a Schiit Saga S via 3 ft. Blue Jeans BJC LC-1 cable, and the Saga runs to a single Schiit Vidar by the another set of the same cable. The Vidar is connected to Elac Debut B6.2’s via 10 ft. Belden 50000UE cable (as an aside, my digital path is Pro Ject S2 Pre Box Digital connected by the same 3ft. interconnects to the Saga>Vidar>speakers). I’ve connected a sub previously (a Martin Logan Grotto I that I inherited) to the Saga in the past, but am currently running without it.

My concern is that while the digital path sounds full to me, at least as much as can be expected, the vinyl path sounds a bit thin and weak. I guess I’d describe it as kind of lacking energy. My gut tells me the Saga S having 0 gain in both the passive and buffer mode (I run it in passive mode because it sounds more lifelike to me but I’ve used the buffer in the past as well) is the reason for this, but I’m not positive. I’m ready to upgrade to the Freya S if that’s the solution, but I didn’t want to start throwing money at a problem without really narrowing it down first. The Zen phono is set to MM and gain 1, which should be correct for my cartridge, the interconnects aren’t overly long (the speaker cable being 10’ isn’t too big a deal, I think?), the Vidar should be driving my inefficient speakers with no issue and judging by the digital path, it is. 

I’m hoping someone here can weigh in on what would make the biggest positive impact in my listening and give me the oomph I think I’m missing. For what it’s worth, I plan on doing some room treatment down the road, but that’s not what I’m looking for advice on at the moment.


Thanks!

owl9113
will3
54 posts
 

I also have a Parks PUFFIN (corrected earlier missprint) on the same system with Sony PS-X75 table. I really like the synergy of those two as well as the Mani2/Thorens; both into the Freya+ preamplifier. The MANI2 has the definition and attack I think you want to hear for a ridiculously low price. The PUFFIN gives me over (20?) adjustments and the Sony PS-X75 is an ideal partner with the Audio Technica and Signet carts I prefer on that TT.

I think you may find that out of the Zen or Mani2, the Schiit unit will have better synergy with your Freya pre. I sometimes prefer running my Freya+ in SS mode using the turntables and find no real loss of musicality compared to tube mode, just less tube coloration and volume. Volume is easily corrected of course.

The Puffin IS NO SLOUCH either, prolly the best pre under $1000.00, ALSO a great match for the Shiit Freya+, and more easily modified on the fly for different carts /styli, settings ect.

I’ll say one more thing; having a Schiit Saga S (or Freya S) is no bad thing, as there are prolly tens of thousands of Schiit preamps being used right now, and VERY FEW complaints from users, especially at their price points. I find the synergy between their gear excellent; so when DAC, EQ, amp ect upgrades are wanted, I buy Schiit; and am usually happy with the result. The PUFFIN is a keeper as well. I realize I can pay MUCH more for phono preamps; but for now I am VERY happy with the two I have! PLEASE try a Mani2 with your Technics before going too big dog; I really think it’s what your’e looking for. Than you can have some fun playing with the various New and NOS Audio Technica styli that fit your cartridge! 👍

txp1
145 posts
 

@owl9113  I think it’s a gain issue. Don’t run your Schiit preamp in passive mode. You clearly need gain there if your phono preamp level control is at 3 o’clock position.  Try to get it to about 12 o’clock position. 

‘’I’ve used ten cartridges, both MC and MM, on several phono preamps with several line preamps, and integrated amps. It’s a gain balance issue. 
 

vair68robert's avatar
vair68robert
594 posts
 

owl9113

You brought up the Moon LP110v2 , I say go for it , I had the v1 version and it sounded much better than the onboard phono section of my Carver preamp .

The v2 has the ability to increase the MM gain from 40 to 50db , this will allow you to use your passive mode . You also have a little ability of loading  your cartridge with the capacitance of your phono cables being between 50 and 100pf and your cartridge recommending between 100-200pf  the v2 gives you 0 , 10 and 100pf options , the other options take you out of the recommended loading values .

I would also recommend using a linear power supply . 

elliottbnewcombjr
5,214 posts
 

op

It’s not all specs, BUT, if you like the performance of AT’s dual magnet design, as I do/have for a long time:

you have AT microlinear,

yes, but: in a not so great ’engine’ (cartridge guts),

https://www.audio-technica.com/en-us/at-vm95ml

I pointed out earlier, the cartridge is ONLY 23db channel separation

compared to the 540ml version I recommended, with 28db channel separation and tighter 1.00 db channel balance.

https://www.audio-technica.com/en-us/cartridges/type/moving-magnet/vm540ml

the 540 imaging will DEFINITELY be superior

In AT’s MM line, you can spend more, to get up to 30db separation, I think the 540 is the best performance/value.

..............................................................................

Eventually I suspect you will try MC moving coil cartridge type.

This is the exchange program they told me about when my AT33PTG/II stylus was worn. Bought new cartridge for half price.

https://www.audio-technica.com/en-us/cartridges/styli-accessories/a-t-moving-coil-exchange-program

like the MM 540ml; in AT’s MC lineup, I chose and recommend the AT33PTG/II as the performance/value choice.

separation 30db; channel balance 0.5db. (stiffer boron cantilever helps)

https://www.audio-technica.com/en-us/cartridges/type/moving-coil/at33ptg-2

All imaging is phantom. Everything created without a center speaker (they used to have center channels)

Give your L and R speakers tight channel balance to locate instruments/vocalists anywhere more precisely. Of course excellent engineering of the source is needed, but a whole lotta excellence is out there.

 

 

 

oldrooney's avatar
oldrooney
178 posts
 

@nlitworld Another testimony for the ‘cheap vertical alignment block’ cited above. It is certainly smaller in real life than it appears on the website (a frequent issues I have with web purchases), but it works well and helped me ‘correct’ what was supposed to be an expert, professional setup from the vendor I purchased the product from. Caveat Emptor, as they say. 

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