Sat front row at the symphony...


Yesterday, I got to sit in the front row to hear the Pittsburgh Symphony do Beethoven's Piano Concerto no 1 and the Shostakovich Symphony no 10.  I know we all talk about audio gear here, but I have to tell you, sitting in the best seat in the house (Heinz Hall) was an amazing audio experience.  I'm not sure the best audio gear in the world can quite match it.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I was mesmerized by the acoustics of the hall and the dynamics of one of the world's best orchestras.

128x128mikeydee

frogman,

Violin concertos are carefully scored for orchestra realizing the inherent SPL limitations of a solo violin.  For the great concertos, the orch is reduced to pianissimo when the solo violin is playing.  When the violin soloist takes a break, the orchestra plays in all its loud glory.  But the violin is rarely playing when the orch is playing with full sound.  The violin and orch are kinda like respectful politicians letting the other speak while the other only listens.  When politicians are trying to yell at the same time, there is chaos.  It is a legitimate tactic of the recording engineer to boost the SPL of the violin by close miking in order to get more equality between the soloist and orch, even if the natural balance is altered.

Piano concertos live have more satisfactory balance, since the piano is a much larger, louder instrument than the violin, and often the piano joins the orchestra in the full glory of both.

What instrument(s) do you play professionally?

I grew up in Detroit.  One of my friends was a violinist who took lessons from Mishakoff in the mid seventies, and I met him a few times, as he used to lead the Youth Orchestra my buddy was in (they played the Bach Double together).  I went to Medical School in Detroit in the early eighties when they were just starting to restore it.  I didn’t get to hear the finished product until a few years ago, and while the acoustics are wonderful, it’s also visually a wonder as well.

   $700 for a balcony seat in Chicago?  We pay $100 for ours.

   Can’t agree with your comments about Vienna or Amsterdam 

Were these great concert halls used back in the day? Did they figure out acoustics in 1700's? Or is this relatively new? I've never been to a symphony but I'll go one day. 

@brunomarcs 

 

There have been great concert halls for hundreds of years. Many great ones available to us were built in the 1920’s. They are great acoustically and aesthetically. 
 

I am not sure when I attended my first… probably Chicago in the 1960’s but I highly recommend it. Do not put it off. Do it soon. Find a great hall near you.

 

I have had the privilege of listening to live orchestra’s in great halls hundreds of times… it has been such a great experience and helped me so much in targeting what I wanted from my audio system. 

@viber6 , thank you for your comments.  We clearly have different perspectives on some of the issues discussed.  I feel that you take some of the points that you are making to an extreme that is not only inaccurate imo, but that clouds the issue being discussed.  It is simply not true that an orchestra is always reduced to playing pianissimo when the solo violin is playing.  Of course care is taken so as to not overpower the solo violin in the big tuttis, but in most concerti there are passages in which the orchestra can play at and the score instructs reasonably healthy levels while the solo violin plays.  With respect, I think you exaggerate the point.  One may prefer a different type of balance as a listener, but that is not necessarily “best”.  Moreover, if sitting very close it is not only the soloist that is then heard more loudly.  Everything will be louder.  On hears more separation of instrumental lines, but little blend.  Blend is important.  

I stand by my comment about the significance of the fact that there was no recording technology when these great works were composed.  Additionally, there also existed large concert halls at the time and the idea that only sitting in the first or second row can one hear the work as intended by the composer is unrealistic.  This is the problem with comparing the home high-end listening experience to the live.  We can become used to the music and its details being thrown at us, instead of being willing to aurally lean into the music as we listen.  We may prefer the balance and spot lighting that home audio provides, but this doesn’t necessarily honor the composer’s intent.  In my opinion the composer’s intent is paramount.  

****It is a legitimate tactic of the recording engineer to boost the SPL of the violin by close miking in order to get more equality between the soloist and orch, even if the natural balance is altered.****

How can altering what is natural be legitimate?  Perhaps a necessary evil and legitimate for recordings only because the immediacy of live performance is lessened by the recording process, even in the best recordings.  Then, you have the problem of the way that close miking inevitably alters timbre, not only volume.

An example that I pointed out previously.  A unison line scored for, say, bass clarinet and cello (a common orchestration technique) heard from the first row of the audience will sound like…..a bass clarinet and a cello playing the same notes twenty feet apart.  Two different tonal colors playing the same notes.  Heard from a distance, say, tenth row or even mid hall it will sound much more as intended: a single, but altogether new and different tonal color in the composer’s tonal palette.    
 

In answer to your question.  I have played clarinets (primarily bass clarinet) and saxophones professionally my entire working life.  Often in the very hall and with the orchestra where mahler123 heard the Shostakovich concerto.  “David Geffen Hall”, is the new name, btw.  I agree with his assessment of the improvement in the sound after renovation.  Not only from the audience, but on stage one hears much improved definition from the bass section.  Before, the low frequency energy was there, but little pitch definition.  Much improved clarity overall. 
 

Regards.