room size question.


( wasnt sure what category to put this in ,so figured this one would get more views)

 

in watching some you tube videos, one from Jays audio lab, and another one from Paul ( ps audio ), they both mention how the speakers should be set up in the room and it seems they bring them out into the room quite a bit.    they say that when this happens, you have the soundstage and jay was mentioning that there are layers that one gets to hear when listening.

my question i guess is that can this same thing happen in a smaller room, say 12x12 or is one just limited to say center imaging due to room size ?

room is treated

 

this is the ps audio video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x63RORq8JMw

jays video 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZOWcvbfNZw

bshaw

speakers are now 30" from back wall and 26" from side wall.      if you move them to far apart, then you lose imagining and just sounds like 2 speakers playing.  brought them closer together and it images just fine....but again, no soundstage. plenty of detail and vocals are clear, just missing that one thing.              

I am confused. You say "it images just fine...but again, no soundstage. Well, imaging IS soundstage. I think you have to define what you mean by imaging and what you mean by soundstage.

@bshaw 

As @jond mentioned you might try a corner set up. My 2 channel set up is a corner set up in a room not much bigger than yours. Excellent soundstage and image. Good luck! 

@bshaw my room is 12 X 18 but my speakers are along the long wall (yes, sacrilege), so i have a similar depth issue as you. My speakers are WAY out from the back wall nevertheless. (Over 4 feet). This is the result of lots and lots of experimentation. I've probably tried 75 different speaker/listening position combinations.

Don't be afraid to pull them way out. In fact, try this: start with them all the way out to almost your listening position, and then start moving them toward the back wall, 8 inches or so at a time. Keep them pointed forward (no toe in) the whole time. At some point, the soundstage will snap into place. Once you know they can produce a soundstage, then you can fiddle with toe-in. I do not subscribe to the view that toe-in should be used to generate a soundstage where your speakers otherwise cannot create one.

You may decide you want them closer to the back wall than the above ends up putting them, but you will know your outer limit this way. I did this after my speakers were already dialed in, as an experiment, and I ended up putting them back where I had originally put them, but the above process resulted in a placement within 3-4 inches of what I am convinced is their best spot. The soundstage is huge, wide, and tall.

@bshaw :

GIK bass corner traps in corners behind speakers, 2 diffusors on stands at first reflection point and 2 acoustical panels behind listening chair .

Try diffusers behind your listening chair (back wall), and the absorbers at first reflection points. Basically reverse what you have now.

I think you said "no toe-in", which is typically what is suggested when you want bigger soundstage (vs. focus), so you should be good there.

" start with them all the way out to almost your listening position, and then start moving them toward the back wall, 8 inches or so at a time"

exactly what New Record Day showed